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  #1  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:13 PM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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Light Load for 460 Rowland?




I have had great success loading 230 and 260 grain loads using power pistol. Zero FTE / FTF. What I want though, is a VERY reliable paper punching load for the range and extended practice. I have 600 brass and ready to load for a quick, light, near recoiless round like the factory 185 grain hollow points. I want to use my 185 grain Rainier flat points with Power Pistol, but open to suggestions. Anybody gave a great recipe....?
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:17 PM
UrbanSI UrbanSI is offline
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Save the Rowland brass and just shoot .45 ACP

The mere mention of downloading "the" 460 might be a crime
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:22 PM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSI View Post
Save the Rowland brass and just shoot .45 ACP

The mere mention of downloading "the" 460 might be a crime
Oh it will still be FAST. Screaming at 1400+ is my goal. Fast, fun, and cheap.
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:00 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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The .460 Rowland is one of the few things missing from my 1911 collection. (But I do have a 10mm).

I understand that your interest (in post) is for loading your own, but just as a benchmark you might want to try one box each of Wilson Combat's two .460 Rowland ammo offerings.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/460-Rowland/products/306/

The "lighter" of the two loads (understanding that "lighter" is not quite the right word) might be pretty close to what you're aiming for with your hand loads.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:36 PM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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I do want a 10mm, but I do love 460 . Such a lovely "bang." The thing about those Wilson rounds..... $2 a pop after shipping. My loads run as cheap as .19 a piece if I did my math correctly. (not counting brass, I know) And reloading 460 is so big fun.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2012, 12:01 AM
TheGerk TheGerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer Bringer View Post
I have had great success loading 230 and 260 grain loads using power pistol. Zero FTE / FTF. What I want though, is a VERY reliable paper punching load for the range and extended practice. I have 600 brass and ready to load for a quick, light, near recoiless round like the factory 185 grain hollow points. I want to use my 185 grain Rainier flat points with Power Pistol, but open to suggestions. Anybody gave a great recipe....?
The short answer is…just rotate to the 45ACP setup
Here’s why

The Rowland with its heavy 24 pound recoil spring is most likely not going to cycle light 185gr. (or most any bullet weight for that matter) using light target power level loads with much reliability.
(Being reliable is one of your criteria)

So, when you look at it, it’s about as much work changing out the Rowland rigging as it is to just make a recoil spring change.

Some other considerations

The Rowland brass is much more costly to buy
Every time you “cycle” a case through the gun you risk losing it and possibly damaging the case.
This makes no sense when the cheaper and better designed cartridge for the “light loading” task is readily at hand.

Additionally, while the Rowland case is ~ twice as strong as the 45ACP case in any iteration.
You will still be “working” the brass, especially the rim.
This presents needless wear and tear on the Rowland case when considering the better alternative.

The 45ACP cartridge is an ideal “fit” for low to moderate loadings with any bullet weight.
Especially if you are just killing paper and shooting money out the pointy end.

You can certainly load 45ACP data in the Rowland case, make the recoil reduction change and it will work.
But this is the poorer choice overall.
Running the 45ACP rig serves you better for the desired task.

Good Luck
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2012, 01:48 AM
220swiftfn 220swiftfn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGerk View Post
The short answer is…just rotate to the 45ACP setup
Here’s why

The Rowland with its heavy 24 pound recoil spring is most likely not going to cycle light 185gr. (or most any bullet weight for that matter) using light target power level loads with much reliability.
(Being reliable is one of your criteria)

So, when you look at it, it’s about as much work changing out the Rowland rigging as it is to just make a recoil spring change.

Some other considerations

The Rowland brass is much more costly to buy
Every time you “cycle” a case through the gun you risk losing it and possibly damaging the case.
This makes no sense when the cheaper and better designed cartridge for the “light loading” task is readily at hand.

Additionally, while the Rowland case is ~ twice as strong as the 45ACP case in any iteration.
You will still be “working” the brass, especially the rim.
This presents needless wear and tear on the Rowland case when considering the better alternative.

The 45ACP cartridge is an ideal “fit” for low to moderate loadings with any bullet weight.
Especially if you are just killing paper and shooting money out the pointy end.

You can certainly load 45ACP data in the Rowland case, make the recoil reduction change and it will work.
But this is the poorer choice overall.
Running the 45ACP rig serves you better for the desired task.

Good Luck
Um.... errr....... He's still talking about 1400 FPS with that 185gr. That's still a wee bit above .45 ACP pressures there (he's right in using the Rowland cases).


Dan
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2012, 07:53 AM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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I really appreciate the input from everybody. The fact still is though that I want to load light screamers. I want to use 460 brass I've collected. A lot of my shooting will be 12" plates out to 150 meters, so I want some speed behind that flying .45 fist.

I've loaded a few rounds at these specs:

Rainier 185 GRN flat point
11 Grains Power Pistol
CCI Large Pistol Primer
Max COL 1.260

Will report back when I get a chance to squeeze some off.

Last edited by Springer Bringer; 11-17-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2012, 12:12 PM
TheGerk TheGerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 220swiftfn View Post
Um.... errr....... He's still talking about 1400 FPS with that 185gr. That's still a wee bit above .45 ACP pressures there (he's right in using the Rowland cases).


Dan
Dan, I was trying to bring some rational perspective to the original post.

Clearly, pushing the soft plated Rainiers to 1400 fps or beyond is not prudent, even by Rainier’s standards.

Hence the recommendation to use the 45ACP for “extended practice”
I doubt the “paper killer” will notice the difference at 1150 fps with 45ACP over 1400 with the Rowland in practical terms for the use intended.

Good Luck
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:54 AM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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Rainiers reccomends not exceeding a max FPS of 1500 fps with these. I will be pushing for the 1350-1400 range. I love 45 ACP, but shooting distances of 150+ meters involves a "commercial break" before impact.
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:52 AM
TheGerk TheGerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer Bringer View Post
Rainiers reccomends not exceeding a max FPS of 1500 fps with these. I will be pushing for the 1350-1400 range. I love 45 ACP, but shooting distances of 150+ meters involves a "commercial break" before impact.
Below is instruction from Rainier
I also can find no published 45ACP lead data that recommends pushing 45ACP or 460 Rowland lead or plated bullets to 1400 or 1500 fps

Loading Data
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data.

Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:10 PM
superdude superdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGerk View Post
Below is instruction from Rainier
I also can find no published 45ACP lead data that recommends pushing 45ACP or 460 Rowland lead or plated bullets to 1400 or 1500 fps

Loading Data
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data.

Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data.
The Rainier website posts this information:

Q3. Do your bullets have ANY velocity restrictions?

A. In general, our bullets typically perform their best when shot at velocities no greater than 1,200 to 1,250 Feet per second (FPS).



However, the information at Midway's website for the 185 grain bullet indicates a 1500 fps limit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/105...ated-flat-nose



Maybe Rainier needs to update their website. Either way there is discrepancy in the information between these sources.


The recommendation for using lead bullet data might be because they produce similar velocities at similar pressure with similar charge weights. That does not say anything about velocity limits.

The Lyman 3rd edition Pistol and Revolver Handbook shows loads for cast bullets exceeding 1500 fps with linotype alloy in .357 magnum and 44 magnum.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2012, 03:07 PM
Springer Bringer Springer Bringer is offline
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Sounds like i'll just have to try and report back. 1300-1400 FPS will be the targeted sweet spot.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 PM
TheGerk TheGerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superdude View Post
The Rainier website posts this information:

Q3. Do your bullets have ANY velocity restrictions?

A. In general, our bullets typically perform their best when shot at velocities no greater than 1,200 to 1,250 Feet per second (FPS).



However, the information at Midway's website for the 185 grain bullet indicates a 1500 fps limit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/105...ated-flat-nose



Maybe Rainier needs to update their website. Either way there is discrepancy in the information between these sources.


The recommendation for using lead bullet data might be because they produce similar velocities at similar pressure with similar charge weights. That does not say anything about velocity limits.

The Lyman 3rd edition Pistol and Revolver Handbook shows loads for cast bullets exceeding 1500 fps with linotype alloy in .357 magnum and 44 magnum.
The key words here SD are hard cast linotype alloy
If memory serves, linotype is around 22 BHN and designed for the velocities in .357 and .44M

If I had to make a SWAG the soft plated swaged Rainiers would be closer to the 12 – 15 BHN range at best.
Not the preferred choice for high velocity.

Not sure about the Midway information, it clearly runs counter to Rainiers own and most all other soft plated manufactures data I can document.

Either way, I’m done here; you can only lead the horse to water.

Good Luck
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 AM
mountiangofer mountiangofer is offline
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Use Montana gold I've had very good luck with them. No problems at all.
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:21 AM
superdude superdude is offline
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Berry's is also offering a newer line of plated bullets that allows for higher velocity. Here is a description from one of their bullets:


Quote:
9mm 124gr HBRN-TP

These bullets are a thick plate and the hollow base adds length to the bullet profile giving more bearing surface. Added bearing surface helps with accuracy in pistol barrels. Thicker plating lets you push these bullets to 1450fps in open guns in calibers like .38 Super

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14...r_HBRN_TP.aspx
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