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  #1  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:06 AM
dwightlooi dwightlooi is offline
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Do you shoot Moly?




I have never shot Moly in Handguns. Here's the beef I have with Moly in Rifles and I am wondering if you guys have the same issues with it in handguns...

(1) Moly has no accuracy or consistency benefits. It just reduces friction and hence fouling allowing you to shoot longer before having to clean the barrel. It also reduces throat erosion and can increase the life of a barrel. How much however depends on the cartridge -- a very erosive chambering like the 22-250 sees much more benefit than an already very long lived 308. It is especially a favourite of people who believe that brushing really hurts a barrel and avoids it like the plague -- because it reduces the frequency and the intensity of cleaning needed for getting to a shinny clean bore. In actuality though, you are replacing copper fouling with Moly fouling. Moly can and do build up. In fact they tend to cake. Basically you are replacing copper solvents and the cleaning of metallic fouling with bore paste and the removal of Moly caking at a reduced frequency.

(2) Before anyone touches Moly coated bullets they should be aware of the fact that Moly reduces velocity. The reason it reduces velocity is that it reduces friction. I know this may sound counter intuitive, but it's absolutely true. Moly is one of the most slippery solids you can put on a metallic surface. This means that the bullet goes down the bore with less friction and it also means that it leaves the crimp and starts into the rifling with less initial resistance. The loss in pressure -- especially start pressure -- causes a reduction in propulsive force and a loss in velocity. Generally speaking you need to up the powder charge a bit to achieve the same velocity. This is not dangerous, even if it means going over the max load, because the reason for the velocity loss is a pressure loss and you are not actually increasing pressures you are merely restoring it.

(3) The above would have been fine if it simply meant that you need to adjust your load slightly when loading with moly projectiles. The problem is that Moly sticks to metal and doesn't com off! Once you have fired Moly bullets in your gun, the barrel's interior surface itself becomes moly coated! And even when you switch back to regular (non-moly) bullets you continue to see a velocity loss (albiet not as pronounced) compared to before the barrel has seen a diet of moly coated rounds. And this can stick around for a long time since copper and carbon cleaning compounds in typical solvents does nothing to remove moly from the barrel! Basically, Moly makes your barrel "slower" with everything semi-permanently until you use special solvents to remove it.

In otherwords, if you shoot Moly you should shoot Moly exclusively. This is OK, I guess, for a benchrest shooter who only shoots his meticulously tweaked handloads and nothing else. But if you shoot factory ammo, hunting ammo and/or plan to shoot reloads with regular bullets you are compromising everything else with your history of a Moly diet! For this reason I don't touch Moly.

Last edited by dwightlooi; 10-22-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:17 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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I shoot "moly" coated lead pistol bullets. (Although some of the makers say there is little or no actual MoS2 in their black coatings.)

The main benefit I find is a reduction in smoke compared to conventional wax lubricated cast bullets.

I see no point to moly coating of jacketed pistol bullets.

The claimed advantages for rifle bullets of less barrel erosion, infrequent cleaning, and higher velocity (available with heavier powder charge) do not apply to pistol calibers.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:30 AM
dwightlooi dwightlooi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I shoot "moly" coated lead pistol bullets. (Although some of the makers say there is little or no actual MoS2 in their black coatings.)

The main benefit I find is a reduction in smoke compared to conventional wax lubricated cast bullets.

I see no point to moly coating of jacketed pistol bullets.

The claimed advantages for rifle bullets of less barrel erosion, infrequent cleaning, and higher velocity (available with heavier powder charge) do not apply to pistol calibers.
If there is no actual MoS2 in their black coating that how are they "Moly" bullets? I mean there are compounds that serve a similar purpose such as Hexagonal Boron Nitride or Tungsten Disulfide, but they don't constitute a black coating. The former is actually clear and the latter is kinda a light grey.

Is it something else that is black such as Lubaloy or Nyclad? I didn't know that either are available on bullets sold as components.
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  #4  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:36 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Most of the bullet coating formulae are proprietary, they are not saying what is in their soup. Some have MoS2, some don't but since they are nearly all black in color (except for Bayou and an European brand) they tend to get CALLED "moly coated."

You know, kind of like a 9mm with external extractor, firing pin obstruction, and bushingless bull barrel will still be called a "1911."
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2012, 11:42 AM
2MoreChains 2MoreChains is online now
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I don't shoot moly-coated bullets in my rifles, but for pistol that is about all I shoot for USPSA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, and IDPA. I like them because they are much cheaper than jacketed or plated, and by far cleaner and less smokier than cast lead.

I have noticed that my powder charge needs to be bumped up by .2 grs or so over a hardcast load. As far as cleaning the barrel... people clean barrels? LOL!
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:53 AM
KrautBurner KrautBurner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MoreChains View Post
I don't shoot moly-coated bullets in my rifles, but for pistol that is about all I shoot for USPSA, Steel Challenge, 3-gun, and IDPA. I like them because they are much cheaper than jacketed or plated, and by far cleaner and less smokier than cast lead.

I have noticed that my powder charge needs to be bumped up by .2 grs or so over a hardcast load. As far as cleaning the barrel... people clean barrels? LOL!


I've not shot moly yet,
but this is what I'm looking at it for

I have a Springfield Loaded that is gonna be a "Range Gun" only
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:16 PM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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There is a huge difference between the polymer & moly coated lead pistol bullets and moly coated rifle bullets.

Completely different animals.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:55 PM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
There is a huge difference between the polymer & moly coated lead pistol bullets and moly coated rifle bullets.

Completely different animals.
This.

All I shoot is moly and barel lead. "Moly" coating on lead pistol bullets is done for the purpose of replacing the bullet lube that is required for lead bullets to prevent leading of the barrel. The moly coated bullets are significantly less smokey than barrel lead bullets, and are only a little more than lead bullets (cheaper than plated bullets)

Plus, the "moly" used on pistol bullets is not the same as what guys do for rifle bullets... its kind of a polymer coating that has moly in it... not just tumbled in moly.

Mike.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2012, 03:06 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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These guys are interesting.
http://www.bulletcoatings.com/products.html


Like Jim says, we use our own reloading lingo loosely, and sometimes it isn't accurate. No big deal.


I've seen booths at Shot Show with three different methods of application:
Tumbling (tumble in powder just like you clean your brass).
Liquid vehicle (mix the powder in something wet, apply it and let it dry).
Impact (kinda like sandblasting but the powder coats the object rather than sandblasting it).
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:05 PM
eeh eeh is offline
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I shoot bayou bullets coated I don't know what with but I love them,,no smoke shoot where I aim--love them
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:24 PM
Wrightturn Wrightturn is offline
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Moly

Poly/moly coated bullets for pistol bullets was intended to reduces lead vapor on indoor ranges. This it does. So do jacketed bullets. The problem of lead vapor on indoor ranges was found to be caused more by primers than bullets.
Remington came out with the Nyclad coated bullets and black bullets in many varieties have appeared as a less expensive to jacketed bullets. Pinellas County Florida was considering banning lead bullets on indoor ranges but fortunately they did their homework. Switching to jacketed and lead free bullets did little to reduce lead levels on indoor ranges. Lead free primers (sp) and lead free bullets make a difference. A good ventilation system can make the most difference. Unfortunately in Florida an indoor range with good ventilation gets really hot. When I used indoor ranges in Va winter meant heavy coats on the range. The price of good ventilation.

As a commercial caster the idea was to get rid of wax bullet lube. If you shoot a pistol with a compensator you probably don`t shoot conventional cast bullets. Poly/moly and Black Bullets represented a way to get a share of this market. I am working on my own version of poly/moly coated bullets. I need customers that shoot thousands of bullets.
Please understand what coated bullets do an do not have to offer.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2012, 01:11 AM
dwightlooi dwightlooi is offline
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If you are set on coating the bullets with a dry lube, forget Moly. Moly sucks because it sticks to metal and is hard to remove. Plus, it absorbs moisture to form corrosive agents that hurts your firearm. It cakes and that sucks more than copper, lead or carbon fouling because it is harder to remove and it builds up thick. It's black so not only does it get on everything and sticks to everything, it makes stuff look visibly filthy.

If you are actually going to coat bullets, do it with Boron Disulfide. It's clear, it does not absorb moisture and does not corrode when wet and it doesn't build up or cake. You don't need to wax it to keep the coating from getting on stuff you don't want it on or rub off.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:09 AM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Dwightlooi,

Whats up with your anti-moly agenda?

You clearly staged that you are not fimiliar with pistol bullets and the use of moly/coatings... so I don't think your arguement against it has any merit...

But here is something that counts.... Bear Creek, BBI, Precision, and a many other commerical bullet manufacturers make millions of bullets a year that are shot by people with no ill effects to their guns.

I don't think you are going to reinvent the wheel here.

Mike.
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:10 AM
mikeg1005 mikeg1005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeh View Post
I shoot bayou bullets coated I don't know what with but I love them,,no smoke shoot where I aim--love them
They smell funny when they burn haha.

Mike.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:58 AM
Wrightturn Wrightturn is offline
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Moly

Moly residue can attract moisture. In 10 years of testing it hasn`t been a problem. So far I have only worked with 45acp and 38 Super. The barrels are all stainless Kart, Bar Sto, or Colt NM.

I don`t shoot a lot of coated or jacketed bullets. The small amount of lead fouling and smoke don`t bother me. I resolved my cast bullet issues over 40 years ago. I own too much casting equipment to switch. Some bullet lubes smoke more than others. Some bullets carry more lube than others.

Just me.
I am 63 years old.
I ride a motorcycle and my face gets dirty. I wash it.
I still change my own oil.
Cleaning my guns is just another therapy.
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:47 AM
djthemac djthemac is offline
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I just got on the moly bandwagon with 180grain TC from bearcreek, couldnt be happier.
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