1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > 1911 Manufacturers > Kimber


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:08 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
Installed EFK Fire Dragon Recoil Spring & Guide Rod




I installed an EFK Fire Dragon recoil spring and guide rod into my Kimber Custom TLE II today, then went to the range to test it out.

First, let me explain why I changed it.........

I have shot 1500 rnds of 230 gr hard ball thru my Kimber.
I had gone to the range a couple of weeks ago to fire some Winchester Ranger L.E. (hollow point) ammo thru my Kimber to see if it would eat it up or give me grief.
Out of the fifty round box of hollow points that I had shot, I had one round that failed to enter into battery.
I was using brand new Wilson Combat Elite mags. I was happy with the results.

But I noticed that the cases were getting dinged as they were being ejected.
The Winchester Rangers are definitely hotter loads.

So I installed a dual action recoil spring and guide rod made by EFK.
They call it the Fire Dragon. This was suggested from another forum member.
EFK claims that the double action spring will reduce "muzzle jump" by 30-40%.

Quality........

EFK manufactures the Fire Dragon out of 416 stainless steel.
The kit looks strong and worthy. However, The machined surface of the guide rod was not smooth. It has ripples and waves from being turned down while on a lathe.
To be honest it looked like crap.
It appears that the lathe operator should have changed out the carbide insert used to turn down the guide rod long ago. I was very dissapointed.
The Fire Dragon recoil spring is closed at both ends. I like this.

Now my installation results......

The Fire Dragon installs easy enough, BUT, the tip of the guide rod did not go through the recoil spring plug. It was getting stuck inside the plug.
This in turn was not allowing the slide to pull back. The slide would only move back 1/2 inch. I thought EFK had sent me the wrong kit.
Anyhow, I recognized the problem.
The guide rod was getting stuck because the very end of the EFK guide rod has a cap screw that retains the secondary spring.
This cap screw has a smaller outer diameter than the guide rod itself, which leaves a step. this step was getting caught inside of the recoil spring plug.
I had to take a plastic pick out of my cleaning kit to get the guide rod aligned with the thru hole of the plug, problem fixed.
I assembled and dissambled my Kimber many times with the Fire Dragon spring kit to check if it would self align at least once.
Unfortunately I need to align the guide rod with the plug EVERY TIME. I am not happy about it.

At the Range........

The Fire Dragon advertises a 30-40% muzzle jump reduction, thus making rapid, accurate fire possible.
EFK also states that this double action spring kit will prolong the life of the pistol.
Personally, I could not feel any difference at all in recoil or muzzle jump.
I shot up 200 rnds today and believe me, I could not tell a difference.
However, when manually racking the slide, there is more resistance felt the last 1/2 inch of the action. Whether this is prolonging the life of the pistol is debateable.
The ammo that I used today was WWB, Federal Champion and Winchester Ranger L.E.
My Kimber ate it up like a pig. It was great. The Fire Dragon spring and guide rod kit worked great also.
The EFK Fire Dragon spring kit did not fully resolve my problem with the dinged cases, but it did reduce the dings depth.

Conlusion......

My Kimber shot fine today with out a problem. I usually have at least one issue with feeding. But not today.
Was this because of the Fire Dragon spring Kit? I don't know. But I am happy with the results at the range.

I returned home from the range and cleaned and inspected my Kimber and the Fire Dragon spring kit.
Every thing looked normal. The Fire Dragon didn't have any visible cracks or deformities.
I will leave the Fire Dragon spring kit in my Kimber and continue to test it at the range.


Dinged cases with Kimber recoil spring and guide rod.
Look how deep the dings are. These are the Winchester Ranger L.E. Holow point cases.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1813.jpg   IMG_1815.jpg  

Last edited by R1jamn; 09-29-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:10 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
Dinged cases with EFK Fire Dragon recoil reduction spring and guide rod.
You can see the dings are not as deep.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1826.jpg  

Last edited by R1jamn; 09-28-2012 at 11:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:13 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
EFK Fire Dragon Kit.
You can see the terrible finish of the guide rod on the second pic.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1822.jpg   IMG_1823.jpg  

Last edited by R1jamn; 09-28-2012 at 11:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:33 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
My Kimber Custom TLE II
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1829.jpg   IMG_1828.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:58 AM
shadow77phl shadow77phl is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Socal
Age: 42
Posts: 327
what recoil spring weight were you using sir? i used to have the efk as well as the sprinco in my team match, but i was having cycling issues so i just removed it. the concept is novel but i was having a hard time making it work with my set up. btw, sprinco looks so much more refined than the efk, but hey your efk worked for you, no need to look for a sprinco.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:10 AM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow77phl View Post
what recoil spring weight were you using sir?
The Kimber comes from the factory with a 16 lb spring.
The EFK Fire Dragon kit also comes with a 16 lb spring.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:35 AM
shadow77phl shadow77phl is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Socal
Age: 42
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1jamn View Post
The Kimber comes from the factory with a 16 lb spring.
The EFK Fire Dragon kit also comes with a 16 lb spring.
hmm, that's interesting sir, mine was having cycling issues with 16; thanks for the info sir. btw, attaching pic of both the efk and the sprinco, as you can see the sprinco is very well polished and is not hc, just very well polished ss.








Last edited by shadow77phl; 09-29-2012 at 02:37 AM. Reason: attaching pics
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2012, 06:07 AM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 4,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1jamn View Post
The Kimber comes from the factory with a 16 lb spring.
The EFK Fire Dragon kit also comes with a 16 lb spring.

Bump your main recoil spring up to 18# and that should get rid of the dings altogether. That's what I'm running in mine and have no problems.

Don't sweat the machining marks. They won't affect function in any way. It may not be as pretty as the Sprinco, but inside the gun -- who cares?

The reason it batters the gun less is that last half inch of resistance. It slows the slide down so that it doesn't slam into the frame from the higher velocity imparted to it by the +P loads. The recoil reduction is there, but its kind of subjective in that its hard to see when the gun is moving. Once you get used to the feel, you'll notice it when firing full mag rapid fire strings. It definitely helps keep you on target, and helps you reacquire the sights a bit faster. That's all good in my book.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:58 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
The Sprinco has a great polish to it indeed. I'm impressed.
My results from the range test was very good with the EFK kit
so I'll stay with it. Thanks for posting pics of the Sprinco.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:58 PM
1956/45ACP 1956/45ACP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 586
Whats the differance in cost between the EFK and the Sprinco?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-29-2012, 03:03 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Bump your main recoil spring up to 18# and that should get rid of the dings altogether. That's what I'm running in mine and have no problems.

Rifter, I just ordered a 18.5 lb spring from Wolf.
Thanks again for the info on the EFK Fire Dragon kit.

I'll report back when I get the Wolf main recoil spring into my Kimber and test it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-29-2012, 04:05 PM
jaep1911 jaep1911 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: DE, USA
Posts: 232
Felt recoil is subjective as said above but in theory, that recoil system should reduce the muzzle 'flip" and "dive' and enable you to realign the sights faster. If you set up some targets, shoot them and time it to compare different setups, you might "see" a difference. I just use a 12lb variable recoil spring in my GM2 (9mm) and love it.
__________________
USPSA, IDPA
Springfield Trophy Match, 45ACP
Kimber Custom II SS Target .45ACP.
Dawson Precision magwell, TrippCobra mags, BladeTech holster and mag puches,
Browning Citori 725 Sporting 30"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-09-2012, 03:23 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
My Wolff recoil spring was delivered. It's an 18.5 lb spring.

I installed it and went to the range to test it out.
The felt recoil is much less with the 18.5 lb recoil spring.
But you can feel the slide as it closes and enters the next round into battery.

The new Wolff spring did not fix my problem with dinged cases.
The EFK alone did reduce the dings.
But it does appear that the dings have been further reduced with the EFK recoil spring kit and the Wolff 18.5 lb recoil spring.

I shot up 300 rnds today. Ammo used, Federal American Eagle, Fiocchi, Federal Champion, Winchester Ranger T L.E.

My Kimber ate it all up. I did not have a single problem today.
This is twice now that I have shot my Kimber with the EFK and walked away from the range with total satisfaction.
Remember now, I have shot my Kimber with two different rated recoil springs with this EFK kit, a 16 lb and 18.5 lb recoil spring and the results were flawless.
Even using different ammo, my Kimber is working great.

Now for the negative.
I returned home from the range and started inspecting and cleaning my Kimber. I looked over the EFK guide rod and saw that the rod assembly was loose.
The guide rod had actually loosened approx 1 turn. So I unscrewed it all the way off and noticed that there was only a MICRO SLIVER of red Loctite on the thread.
I am not happy about this. But that is why I am testing it.
Anyhow, I cleaned up the threads using a wire brush and acetone for the external threads and a 10-32 tap for the internal threads and flushed it out with acetone.
I then reassembled the guide rod assembly using Loctite 620 (high temp).

For now I'll leave the EFK in my Kimber. The EFK doesn't have the best finish, but it is working.
For those that do have or if you are considering an EFK then check the guide rod assembly to see if it is coming loose.
With the Loctite 620 on the threads now, I will feel much more confident.

As for the dinged cases?
It is a non issue with me now. The dings are minimal and my Kimber is eating everything I have put through it.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1830.jpg   IMG_1831.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:22 PM
Rifter's Avatar
Rifter Rifter is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The People's Republic of Illinois, most corrupt state in the Union.
Posts: 4,224
Great! Glad to hear my recommendation worked out for you. Good shooting.
__________________
Vietnam Combat Vet - U.S. Navy 1970-1974
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:27 PM
R1jamn R1jamn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal, L.A. area
Age: 50
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
Great! Glad to hear my recommendation worked out for you. Good shooting.
Thanks Rifter.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved