1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > Hardware & Accessories > Gunsmithing & Troubleshooting


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2012, 01:26 PM
CowboyShooter CowboyShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orygun Territory
Posts: 148
ejection problems,norinco 1911a1,45acp




this just started recently on my used gun I bought last witner.
Had a 'smith I trust look at it,he did some polishing ,and adjustments to the extractor. Not much help as it turns out.
My 'smith works short hours,so thought i'd ask here since at least a few of you have 1911's, lol

when it jams like this,it can be any mag,various loads,no certain round in the mag,so hard to put a finger on it being load or mag problem.

In this pic,and at other times,the slide is locked back as if empty gun,but the case just wont come out easily,it's usually partially in the magazine lips.
It is doing it about 5 percent of the time.

any help appreciated,and sorry for the long post.


__________________
Throckmorton SASS no. 23149

it's a teen,tiny town in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:10 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 16,901
I'd check the extactor tension. If there's no mag in place and you rack a round, or a case, out of the chamber, does it just fall out the magwell?
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:36 PM
CowboyShooter CowboyShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orygun Territory
Posts: 148
rounds eject fine nearly all of the time,If I just put in one round,remove mag and work slide,the round will eject normally.It's getting the case out of the gun that is the hangup,and I do mean hangup.It gets caugth in the mag lips,so the mag is all but impossible to remove most of the time becsause the rim of the case is logdged into the positon u see it in,and is usually quite hammered.
it's not my carry piece,but I still want it back to 100 percent,for matches.
__________________
Throckmorton SASS no. 23149

it's a teen,tiny town in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:42 PM
sharky8js sharky8js is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central, MO
Posts: 171
What kind of mag are you using? seems odd that it would get stuck in the lips?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:26 PM
CowboyShooter CowboyShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orygun Territory
Posts: 148
4 different kinds,doesn't seem to be mag or ammo specific as I tried 5 loads in all the mags..slow fire,rapid fire,etc. can't 'make' it do it,does it when it wants to.
__________________
Throckmorton SASS no. 23149

it's a teen,tiny town in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:35 PM
sharky8js sharky8js is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central, MO
Posts: 171
my guess would be weak extractor and a too heavy recoil spring - forcing the shell back into the mag.
Just my $.02
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2012, 04:07 PM
tacbaer tacbaer is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 134
have to agree with sharky,had the same problem.I found tension way loose after 1000 rd break in.got the proper tools ie:spacer, extractor bender,trigger pull guage. readjusted and runs great. hope this helps
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2012, 09:56 AM
CowboyShooter CowboyShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orygun Territory
Posts: 148
re: recoil springs....my empties don't fly very far,some just kind of flop out on the ground next to me,lol.
to me,this would indicate..possibly..a too strong spring ?
I believe 18 is std,don't really know what is in the gun,so going to get an asst. and try them.

so,how do I know when i've gone too light on the recoil spring?
__________________
Throckmorton SASS no. 23149

it's a teen,tiny town in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2012, 10:35 AM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
you might be having Ejector problem rather than Extractor problems. What I think is happening is the cases are being kicked out too low and striking the side of the Ejection-port and bouncing back into the chamber. As the slide comes back forward it's snagging the case on the front of the port.

Two cures, either have the Ejection port lowered or install an Extended ejector and recontour it to hit the rim as low as possible.
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2012, 08:17 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 16,901
Not saying your fix won't work, but how did hundreds of thousands of G.I. and commercial pistols work for decades with high ports and standard ejectors, if that's causing the problem?
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2012, 08:28 PM
log man log man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riverside County,CA
Posts: 10,618
If the extractor has good tension, then the problem is the inside of the hook that bears against rim is rounded up to high. When there isn't a round in the mag to support the empty during ejection the empty is squirted down like a wet bar of soap by the extractor and jammed into the mag, often bending the lips out.

LOG
__________________
Warning, do not remove any material from your pistol or any of it's parts if you do not know the result and it's consequences!
Ask 1911Pro! Resident RKI.......it gun....gun dangerous...



Last edited by log man; 09-16-2012 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2012, 08:44 PM
BSA1 BSA1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 44
Limpwristing.

I would not be surprised if you are relaxing your shooting stance and grip just
enough to allow your gun to jam. Really focus on your shooting stance and grip and see if it makes a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2012, 08:52 PM
log man log man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Riverside County,CA
Posts: 10,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA1 View Post
Limpwristing.

I would not be surprised if you are relaxing your shooting stance and grip just
enough to allow your gun to jam. Really focus on your shooting stance and grip and see if it makes a difference.
I really don't know how the limp wristing rumor got started, but at the range have never been able to get a malf by holding as loose as possible, just laying in my palm with only the trigger finger on the trigger.

LOG
__________________
Warning, do not remove any material from your pistol or any of it's parts if you do not know the result and it's consequences!
Ask 1911Pro! Resident RKI.......it gun....gun dangerous...


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2012, 09:06 PM
jlewis jlewis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Age: 63
Posts: 112
16 lb. recoil spring. And heed Logman's advice.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2012, 11:06 PM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Not saying your fix won't work, but how did hundreds of thousands of G.I. and commercial pistols work for decades with high ports and standard ejectors, if that's causing the problem?

Uh...they were Colts and put together better than a Norinco? Also, why do you think those two cures came about?
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-16-2012, 04:57 AM
1911Jeeper 1911Jeeper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 309
If your brass looks like this, get a new extractor, polish and shape the claw, then tension it correctly. Worked for my Norinco. A new recoil spring is also a good idea on any used 1911.

.

.
__________________
.
The 2nd Amendment exists to protect the individual citizen from Tyranny. Whether that Tyranny originates from
our own Government, common criminals, Progressive Liberalism, or foreign invaders, is irrelevant.

Last edited by 1911Jeeper; 09-16-2012 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-16-2012, 06:55 AM
Jolly Rogers Jolly Rogers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,677
In addition to the properly fit and tuned extractor, make sure the extractor can't clock. (Twist ccw in the bore) This may require a new oversize firing pin stop. I suggest the fine offering from EGW.
Joe
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:24 AM
CowboyShooter CowboyShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orygun Territory
Posts: 148
Thank you all for your input.The knowledge base here is a BIG help . I"ll get a new extractor,and a new recoil spring.
thanks again,and i'll report back when things are better.
__________________
Throckmorton SASS no. 23149

it's a teen,tiny town in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-23-2012, 05:17 PM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
Question pertaining to this thread. How does the Extractor control the height that the case is Ejected. Is there some tune-angle on the hook that causes the case to Eject higher to clear the chamber-port?

Just curious.
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-08-2012, 06:41 AM
racerick racerick is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Juat to add my 2 cents, I just purchased a used Springfield A1 TRP and it does the same thing as in the picture of the irst post. Brand new Wilson Combat mag. It only happens to the last round and when it doesn't jam in the mag, the shell doesn't eject properly. I am right handed and right eye dominate and I got hit buy the shell on my left ear. I will check with the dealer where it was purchased. Thanks all!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-08-2012, 02:15 PM
Mechanized Mechanized is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by log man View Post
I really don't know how the limp wristing rumor got started, but at the range have never been able to get a malf by holding as loose as possible, just laying in my palm with only the trigger finger on the trigger.

LOG
I have to agree. I have tried on many different 1911's (even those with the occasional ejection problem) to get a limp wrist MALF to occur. All that ended up happening was I kept trying many different holds that almost pushed my safety limits. I don't have the experience of many others here but have tried a few things. I find it even funnier when magazines state the limp wristing theory. I can see why the theory seems valid.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Steve in Allentown Steve in Allentown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Waits View Post
Question pertaining to this thread. How does the Extractor control the height that the case is Ejected. Is there some tune-angle on the hook that causes the case to Eject higher to clear the chamber-port?
The ejector controls the angle at which the case exits the gun. However, the extractor must maintain its grip on the empty case as the barrel is pulled down out of battery by the link. A common reason for the ejector losing the case is because the bevel indicated by "D" in the picture below comes up too far. As the case rim moves down the tensioning wall it will encounter the bevel at which point the extractor is in danger of losing its grip on the case rim. I like the Wilson Bulletproof extractors. They come with a bevel machined in. I use 400 grit sandpaper to very, very lightly round the top edge of the bevel (indicated by the line between "C" and "D"). The bottom edge is not so critical so I do a pretty aggressive job rounding it.



So we've got the correct bevel, the correct deflection, the correct tension, the edge of the hook "B" isn't contacting the case, and the nose of the extractor "A" isn't contacting the barrel. The only thing missing is the radius at "F". This radius allows the case to rotate up as it is being punched by the ejector.

Let me be a little clearer. The only place where the .45 ACP case should be in contact with the extractor is the tensioning wall "C".

The picture below is a simpified version of the picture above and shows the basic idea. To my eye it exaggerates the beveling and rounding but still is valuable as a quick albeit imprecise reference.



As you can tell by those who posted before me, there are a lot of guys here that know their way around extractors. Pay attention to log man.

You may find the pictures at the link below to be of some help also:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost...09&postcount=6
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-22-2013, 09:50 AM
Skidmark911 Skidmark911 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1
I had the same problem... My empties were being forced back into the mag feed lips. The EGW extractor with the proper tension resolved the issue. Basically, the extractor was allowing the empty to drop down slightly and the recoil was pushing the empty into the feed lips... then the slide would hit the empty shell and leave those two dents you show in the pic.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved