1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > 1911 Manufacturers > Rock Island Armory


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:00 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
Realiable feeding for LSWC




I shoot 200 gr LSWC with 5.4 gr W231 on a Citadel FS. I chose to put this here instead of the reloading section because this is specific to Armscor pistols.

Does anybody have a reliable recipe for feeding success with LSWC? I would like to stay with this type bullet because it just makes really pretty holes on paper, but now that I'm starting to play IDPA, i would also like to gain reliable feeding with this type bullet.

i could probably say that I would get 5 out of a hundred FTF. I dont really want to move to 230 gr RN but if I have to, i guess i dont have a choice. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:21 PM
sbeatty1983 sbeatty1983 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North Mississippi
Age: 31
Posts: 903
What oal are you running?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:35 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
i knew that was gonna come up and i forgot what i used. I'll have to get back with you on that when I get home.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:37 PM
NJLaPrell NJLaPrell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 90
I've been loading 200 grain LSWC exclusively for my RIA FS Tac lately. The only FTF problems I have are being caused by lube building up around the neck or making its way down the side of the case. I've been wiping each cartrige off with a cloth before storing them away and managed to get my last 150 rounds down range without a single FTF.
__________________
-- Nick
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:40 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
I should not have that issue since i use plated Rainiers.

I also replaced the mag catch with the new and improved part and my mags are visibly sitting higher in the mag well.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR

Last edited by gamma72; 07-09-2012 at 05:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:18 PM
bcrebel bcrebel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 43
I use a lead 200 gr round nose flat point over 4.2 grains of Clay's that I've never had feed issues with in my FS Tactical. It's loaded to an overall length of 1.21 inches. Soft shooting and accurate. I use it mostly for bowling pin matches and general target shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-09-2012, 07:41 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
i use oal of 1.30.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:25 PM
ar1911 ar1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 61
That OAL is longer than what I was loading to to increase reliability in my RIA FS Match. However, I am on the road and don't have my data in front of me...... I believe I am down around 1.20 to 1.25 (just a little above whatever the shorter of Lymans manual or Hodgen site had for OAL with W-231/HP-38, can't remember how I came up with it). I was loading 1.32 and didn't think .005 to .010 would make much of a difference, but it was a huge difference.

My 2011 tactical hasn't jammed on one of these rounds yet with the "new style" mag catch. My new style mag catch is on the way for the FS tacticle, and from what I have heard/read I am hopeful this will take care of my last few jams I have been getting.

When I get back into town I'll try and remember to update with what my actual OAL ended up being.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:27 PM
ar1911 ar1911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 61
Found it on this post:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...=366652&page=2

I ended up down around 1.23".
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:53 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
I'll try that. i was actually using 1.25 with the FTF and increased a little playing with the plunk test. i'll load up a batch with that oal and try it out this friday.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-09-2012, 11:13 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,120
I'm not familiar with rainer's SWC ...but i know you can't go by other foiks OAL suggestions unless it's the exact same bullet.
Not all SWC bullest have the same length or dia nose
some will be longer OAl, some will be shorter .
The determining of how deep or shallow they can be seated will be the shoulder of the bullet .

Too much shoulder exposed above the case rim, the bullet runs into the chamber leade (the point where the rifling starts) and cause FTRTB

so there's just not a lot of room to tinker with OAl and SWC.
maybe .010 is all .
BUT...sometimes just that little can make a difference

so find the MAX OAL with that bullet .
Do that by pulling the barrel out of the pistol and dropping in a dummy rnd you made intentionally too long .
the case will be above the barrel hood .
Continue to seat that bullet deeper by a few thousandths at a time
(maybe a 1/4 turn of the die's seater adjusting knob)
seat bullet deeper til the rnd's rim is flush or a shade below the barrel hood.
Drop in a factory rnd and you'll see what I mean by "flush with the hood"

That will be MAX OAL for that bullet .
once you've established the MAX OAL for your pistol's barrel, then you start tinkering with OAl feed adjustments

BTW, that's the same way to find max OAL with any bullet ...cause not all FMJ or LRN bullets can be seated the same OAL either



edit..I didn't see you;re already familiar with the plunk test...but it took forever to type all that ..so it;s staying..LOL


..l.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-10-2012, 02:35 AM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
i already did all those steps. lol

what really prompted me to increase my oal was my thinking was that maybe my oal was too short that the hang-up is when brass and not lead is having first contact with the area just forward of the hood. am i making any sense?
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-10-2012, 06:33 AM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamma72 View Post
that the hang-up is when brass and not lead is having first contact with the area just forward of the hood.

hmmm....are your occasional MALF's of the stem bind or three point jam variety?

is that why you suspect it's the case mouth rubbing on top of chamber?




..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-10-2012, 11:06 AM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
hmmm....are your occasional MALF's of the stem bind or three point jam variety?

is that why you suspect it's the case mouth rubbing on top of chamber?




..L.T.A.
please define stem bind and three point?

what I notice though is that the round does get stripped from the mag, then as the round transitions into the chamber, it gets stuck, looking like the brass is rubbing against the top of the chamber causing the stopage.

if a three point jam is the top of the round is stuck at the top of the chamber, middle of the round is jammed to the bottom of the chamber, and the base of the round is touching another round in the mag, then that's what it is.

it got me thinking, could this also be a case length issue? i have used the same brass through, well say 10 sessions, could that have caused the brass to lengthen already? I might need to run my brass through my Lee trimmer/case length guage next time i clean brass.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-10-2012, 11:37 AM
zanthor zanthor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 416
2Alpha 200 grain LSWC over 4.5 grains of Bullseye 1.22 OAL and a 0.472 crimp. I've run ~150 of these through my gun without any issues. I'm finishing out the last of my plated bullet reloads this week and will be firing my LSWC's next Tuesday, I'll be sure to post back here and say if I have success or failure.

Biggest jump in feed reliability for me was going from cheap triple K magazines to Wilson Combat 47D's.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-10-2012, 09:13 PM
Cappi Cappi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamma72 View Post

it got me thinking, could this also be a case length issue? i have used the same brass through, well say 10 sessions, could that have caused the brass to lengthen already? I might need to run my brass through my Lee trimmer/case length guage next time i clean brass.
stem bind and it's worse cousin 3-point are when the rnd angles up at a steep angle and gets jammed with nose of bullet partially in chamber, and the the case rim isn't far up the breach face yet


Probably not the brass...45 brass doesn't stretch like rifle brass .
It's actually shorter after firing


Make the OAL as long as your barrel's chamber will allow ..see what happens

did someone mention try a different brand mag yet??


..L.T.A.
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-12-2012, 05:04 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappi View Post
stem bind and it's worse cousin 3-point are when the rnd angles up at a steep angle and gets jammed with nose of bullet partially in chamber, and the the case rim isn't far up the breach face yet


Probably not the brass...45 brass doesn't stretch like rifle brass .
It's actually shorter after firing


Make the OAL as long as your barrel's chamber will allow ..see what happens

did someone mention try a different brand mag yet??


..L.T.A.
Tried that already, but i did settle for 1.23 OAL and it seems to be feeding properly with my dummy rounds, real test will be tomorrow when i take it to the range.

Now I just need to address some occassional nose dives with my factory mags and all will be good in the world. The sucky part is RN does not over come the nose dives which decreases the OAL alot.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:59 PM
joepistol joepistol is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester Hills,Mi
Posts: 55
comments on Feeding problems..

Funny I should stumble on this thread after trying to get some cast 185 gr bullets to feed reliably..As I was loading to the shortest OAL length listed for 185 gr bullets in a Midway 45 acp loadbook I have (1.190") and still having problems, (rounds feed but not fully chambering) decided to call my bullet caster, (Matt Dardas of Dardas cast bullets). He took the time to patiently explain many of factors that go into determining the proper OAL for a specific pistol. Note I said a "specific pistol" as individual variances from 1 gun to another can/will affect the optimal OAL of a specific bullet to a specific barrel. By experimenting as Matt suggested, I found that shortening the OAL from 1.190" to 1.179" the rounds fed & chambered full in this barrel. Looking @ Midways "Loadmap" for 185gr bullets, they have 12 different bullets pictured & my bullet is not the same as any of them. By selecting the closest in appearance/shape, and slowly adjusting seating depth, I found what works.

To those that may think this was magazine related, I tried all feeding with a variety of magazines..inc. a Wilson, ACT, Mc Cormick, & Colt..

Combine chamber dimension variables,with mags differences, & mag catch variances..it's a wonder anything works.. Joepistol..

Last edited by joepistol; 07-18-2012 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-18-2012, 02:06 PM
gamma72 gamma72 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 578
I took the plunge towards wilson combat mags and it seems very promising. True test is when i take them to the range tomorrow or Friday. i might go to a lighter spring also to see if having a delayed slide return to battery would help. I saw this cool video that really got me thinking about different recoil springs to suit my needs.
__________________
HMC (AW/SW) USN Retired

Bushmaster ORC in 5.56, DPMS Panther Bull 20 in .223, Citadel 1911FS in 45ACP, Rock Island Armory 1911FS in 9mm, M&P FS in 9mm, S&W 22A in 22LR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved