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  #1  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:31 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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Feed Issues ?




Picked up a Sig Ultra Two tone a month ago. I have had it out to the range twice and really love the gun. I have not had any failures to feed with WWB or AE 230 RN and a few PDX1. My concern is that the rounds are not feeding smoothly as they are hitting on the frame just in front of the barrel ramp. I have been shooting with the supplied mags. I tried a Chip McCormick power mag and it would not even load the first round as the slide would hang up on the magazine. I tried my LB mag and the gun fed fine. I tried other checkmate mags and had the same issue as I did with the factory mags. I noticed that the barrel ramp site approx 3/32" back from the frame. Is this just a mag issue or is the frame or barrel ramp cut wrong?

Thanks for any insight. I will be contacting Sig. I just dont want to start chasing magazines that will work if there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed.
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:50 PM
BC1911 BC1911 is offline
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I had the same issue with my Ultra 2tone, even few FTFs! I've used WC mags with no problem at all! But like you said not as smooth as it should be. Let me know what Sig CS say about this! Thanks!
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:20 PM
rbert0005 rbert0005 is offline
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Take the mags that work and make the others like that.

It's called tuning.

Bob
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Maverick40 Maverick40 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat3172 View Post
Picked up a Sig Ultra Two tone a month ago. I have had it out to the range twice and really love the gun. I have not had any failures to feed with WWB or AE 230 RN and a few PDX1. My concern is that the rounds are not feeding smoothly as they are hitting on the frame just in front of the barrel ramp. I have been shooting with the supplied mags. I tried a Chip McCormick power mag and it would not even load the first round as the slide would hang up on the magazine. I tried my LB mag and the gun fed fine. I tried other checkmate mags and had the same issue as I did with the factory mags. I noticed that the barrel ramp site approx 3/32" back from the frame. Is this just a mag issue or is the frame or barrel ramp cut wrong?

Thanks for any insight. I will be contacting Sig. I just dont want to start chasing magazines that will work if there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed.
Pat, I had the same problem with mine. I wrote a more detailed explanation of the problems I was having with my gun in another thread regarding this same issue not too long ago. I sent mine back to Sig, got it back in about 2 weeks. I've put close to two hundred rounds through it since and have had no problems at all. I like the pistol, as it is accurate as can be. They modified the ejection port and replaced the extractor spring, fired 50 rounds through it with no malfunctions. Good service I think. Incidentally, I don't think the problem is related to magazines, but I really didn't try any others before sending mine back.
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:59 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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This rather lengthy article is a must read to understand how the 1911's controlled feed approach works, and how some of the different popular mags out there are designed, and why. I love my 1911. It is my favorite pistol hands down. However, I rely on an M&P 45 acp for personal security. It'll feed a soggy cigar butt in both July and and February.

Article here http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/ Keep hitting Next Page in the lower right hand corner until the end.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2012, 12:57 PM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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Just an update. I contacted Sig and they sent me a shipping label. Sent it in today. I will update when I get it back from and Sig and get to the range.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:22 PM
7in1911 7in1911 is offline
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Here's my experience from some FTF problems I was having...

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=370653
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:34 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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Update

I received my Ultra back from Sig in about two weeks. The service note included said that they modified the ejection port. They did test fire and did not have any failures. My concerns were the nose of the round hitting the frame prior to the feed ramp which you can actually feel when it cycles. I have not taken it to the range yet but thought they would have addressed this issue when Sig had it. I did notice last night that when the slide is locked back the barrel has some play in it. If i push the barrel back the barrel ramp lines up with the frame, however if i just tip the gun forward the barrel ramp moves forward. Does this happen to any one elses Ultra's? Would this indicate an issue with the barrel link?

I bought this to be my main carry gun and just want to make sure functionally it is OK.

Thanks for any help.

Patrick
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:44 AM
LEO2B LEO2B is offline
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Thanks for the update Pat.

I doubt there would be a barrel link prob. having just returned from the factory but...?

SHoot the piss out of her and let us know!
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2012, 06:14 PM
bowserb bowserb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat3172 View Post
I did notice last night that when the slide is locked back the barrel has some play in it. If i push the barrel back the barrel ramp lines up with the frame, however if i just tip the gun forward the barrel ramp moves forward. Does this happen to any one elses Ultra's? Would this indicate an issue with the barrel link? I bought this to be my main carry gun and just want to make sure functionally it is OK.
Patrick
Your barrel play question: I measure approximately 1/32" fore and aft play with the slide locked back on a 5" Colt 1911. My SA XDM-45--a striker gun with an alleged "match grade" barrel--has a little more: about 1/16". I'm pretty sure any tilt barrel semiauto will have a loose barrel when the slide is locked back.

I've been reading every two-tone thread here, as I was on the verge of buying one. My current carry is a Colt 01980XSE, a 5" 1911 that weighs 2lb, 14 oz with 8+1 rds of 230gr JHP. Like others, I guess, I want a compact 1911. In my case it is as a lighter, easier-to-draw alternative to the full size Colt. I've considered a Colt Defender, the Kimber Super Duper Ultra Plus Ultra, and a Springfield, although I really want a Made in USA gun. Initial look at the Two-tone is impressive: Nice finish, 8-rd mags, 3.3" barrel (most others are 3"), night sights, and a reasonable price ($886 at Bud's). Whatever I get, though, must first of all be reliable. Loaded with 8+1 rounds, it needs to go bang nine times.

I was just going to hit my nearby shops for pricing and availability, to see how close they might come to Bud's but decided to look here first. This thread, along with about ten others I've read so far, gives me some concern. I don't know what the percentage is, but it is beginning to look like routine to buy the gun, find the bugs, send the gun back to Sig.

I know I've read some whiners on other forums complain that Sig has gone to the dogs. I doubt that, but it does sound like Sig has some QC issues. Or does it sound worse than it is?
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:56 PM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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bowserb - I will hopefully be going to the range this weekend to cycle a few hundred rounds through the gun since i received it back from Sig. I will post a follwow up. I will be taking some more full size mags that I know work and I will post an update. The gun really is a pleasure to shoot. I have not had any failures but just a concer of the rounds hitting the frame enough to feel when cycling. My thought is that sooner or later this will cause a failure.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:59 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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Range update
Hit the range this weekend and still no failures to feed firing AE, WWB, W PDX1, and a few Tul Ammo all mixed up in the mags and no failures. I can still feel the round hitting the frame when sling shotting. I tried the factory mags, checkmate mags, LB mag and a CM P+ and they all functioned fine as well but still hitting the frame on reload. I will put a few more hundred rounds through this, may pick up some more compact mags and try them also. If no problems this will become my carry piece. I will also monitor the frame where the rounds are making contact to see if it starts to get chewed up.
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:06 PM
DB1911 DB1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat3172 View Post
Range update
Hit the range this weekend and still no failures to feed firing AE, WWB, W PDX1, and a few Tul Ammo all mixed up in the mags and no failures. I can still feel the round hitting the frame when sling shotting. I tried the factory mags, checkmate mags, LB mag and a CM P+ and they all functioned fine as well but still hitting the frame on reload. I will put a few more hundred rounds through this, may pick up some more compact mags and try them also. If no problems this will become my carry piece. I will also monitor the frame where the rounds are making contact to see if it starts to get chewed up.

Ok? from what I'm reading in your original post, and your follow up post, your gun is fine.

When looking at your frame with the slide off, you should notice that where the barrel fits against the frame, that the frame has a slight up hill incline to it. This acts as a ramp assisting in feeding the rounds into the actual chamber of the barrel. You will feel something as the round is leaving the magazine, and bumping into the frame on it's way to the chamber. This is normal. You'll also notice that the chamber area of the barrel has a contour to it. It's contoured to assist the round getting into it's chamber. These two contoured areas of the frame and the barrel combine together to create a "ramp", for lack of a different word.

What you're feeling is a round leaving a spring tension-ed magazine, going forward and up, bumping into the frame as it travels up and into the chamber. This is all by design. There's more to it, at the same time the rim of the cartridge is traveling up against the breech face in between the breech face and extractor. This all happens very quickly, and under a lot of spring tension. You have the spring tension of the magazine pushing the round up, and the tension of the recoil spring pulling the slide forward. I won't get into the part about the empty casing having to be pulled out of the chamber, and ejected out through the ejection port all at the same time. That will have to wait for another thread or post.

All this "action" is going on in a split of a second, so you're going to feel something. If it's not failing to feed, or failing to extract, then you're fine. Some minor tuning may have to be done on down the road when things don't mesh together so well. You may have to replace a magazine spring, or recoil spring, but as long as the gun is working, shoot it. Don't put too much thought into it.


Good Luck,

DB
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:39 PM
bowserb bowserb is offline
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Hey, Pat3172, can you tell me, please, if you've had semiauto handguns before this Sig Two-tone, and if so what were they? I'm not challenging your observations in any way, just wondering what they're being compared to. If this is your first semiauto, or even your first 1911, then DB1911's conclusion makes sense.

Again, no offense or criticism is intended here toward anyone. A compact 1911 is a substantial purchase and a significant leap of faith into a type of gun (3-3.5" 1911) that has historically been troublesome. I am looking for an alternative to my 2lb 14.6oz 1911 for daily carry, so I need something that can be depended upon in a emergency. This forum is a place where one can read real people's experiences, rather than just relying on manufacturer's or seller's statements.
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  #15  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:41 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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DB1911 - The Ultras have a ramped barrel. My comment on the round hitting the frame is just that. I can see where the round makes contact with the frame prior to the ramped barrel. A few of my other 1911's that have ramped barrels show no wear on the frame and the end of the ramped barrel is flush with the frame, on the Ultra the end of the ramped barrel is inset of the fame edge as you would have on a traditional barrel ramp.

bowserb -no offense taken. This is not my first and I do have other 1911's that I have had for years. I have just not physically felt this hitch when the round loads in my other guns. I am familiar with the process of how the slide strips the round out of the mag and the path it takes until fully chambered.

As I said before this I have not encountered before and was just looking for advice. Ill just keep shooting it for now and monitor the frame for any gouges or rough spots. The gun has not failed me so I still have that.

Thank you for all of your help.

Patrick
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2012, 09:33 PM
DB1911 DB1911 is offline
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I apologize for being such a smart ass, but it just didn't understand the concerns with a gun that appears to be working fine.

In all honesty, it sounds like that recoil spring is pulling the slide shut faster than the round round can make it's way up into the chamber. It almost sounds like a little timing has to be adjusted, so to speak.



DB
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:17 PM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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db1911- I appreciate your assistance on this and no offense taken. This site has been incredibly helpful with learning the 1911 platform. I am that person that has read enough to be dangerous but thankfully i recognize that and defer to this forum and much more knowledgeable people. I hear people refer to timing issues but are not familiar with what they really mean. Could you please elaborate? Do I need stronger springs in the magazines?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:27 PM
DB1911 DB1911 is offline
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Originally Posted by pat3172 View Post
db1911- I appreciate your assistance on this and no offense taken. This site has been incredibly helpful with learning the 1911 platform. I am that person that has read enough to be dangerous but thankfully i recognize that and defer to this forum and much more knowledgeable people. I hear people refer to timing issues but are not familiar with what they really mean. Could you please elaborate? Do I need stronger springs in the magazines?

It could be the magazine spring tension, or the recoil spring. You really need to pay attention to which magazine might be a difference. The angle of the follower, or the way the magazine seats in the gun may be a few thousands of an inch different from another. A magazine spring might be weak in one magazine, or 2 out of 3, and it has you thinking that's something is seriously wrong, when it could be as simple & cheap as magazine springs. This is the whole confusing part of tinkering or tuning any gun, let alone a sub compact 1911's, or miniature 9mm. You've got some tighter tolerances in these little guns, and everything is moving all with in a few fractions of a second from each other, not to mention with in a few thousands of an inch from each other.

This is why I said something about you posting a concern with a gun that isn't failing in any way. You might be onto something though. You may be feeling something going on in there that may evolve into something on down the road. That's where you have to start making small changes, and paying attention to what those changes are impacting, if anything. Springs are cheap and an easy place to start. If changing a spring makes things work in the wrong direction, they can easily be changed back and they aren't that expensive.

Try a 3 pack of some new magazine springs, maybe a different weight recoil spring. Just remember that the gun is working now, and if something you do makes it not work, just go backwards back to where you were.

Scratch the thought of the recoil spring, you're dealing with a sub compact and that's a different story. You probably won't be able to find anything different out there than what Sig has to offer.

DB
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Last edited by DB1911; 07-24-2012 at 11:44 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:08 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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DB -Thank you.
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:09 PM
LEO2B LEO2B is offline
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Longshot-take her apart and see how your slide stop fits through the barrel link pin.

I noticed some dings on my frame just below the feed ramp, on the frame as well, but have not had any feed or eject issues beyond with swc reloads.

Also, to eval. your mags easier at the range mark them with a perm marker: however you want to label them with #s or letters, etc..
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  #21  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:38 AM
pat3172 pat3172 is offline
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Update

Was at the range last nigh with the Ultra and ran another 150 rounds through. The feeding seems to be smoothing out. I cannot explain why, but the gun has been flawless function wise. I hope that it continues to smooth out because it is a lot of fun.

Patrick
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