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  #1  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:17 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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Curious about 1945 Remington Rand




I was trying to find out a little more info about my Remington Rand. I think I have posted pictures here before but I have some more questions.

Is it all correct? Has it been refinished?. The crossed cannons and the FJA proof look like they've been struck twice. What do you all think?









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  #2  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:18 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:27 PM
jrw248 jrw248 is offline
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Refinished. 'ARMY' is very light. I recognize the German nitro proof (Eagle over N), not the other two.
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  #4  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:36 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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Thanks! I was afraid it had been refinished.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:52 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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The finish might be original, but buffed or polished possibly by somebody taking Flitz or a similar product to it. But since it has the engraved "LEAD" on it as well as German proofs it's kind of a moot point.

However, it has the wrong slide stop as well.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:01 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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The German proofs make it worth less too?
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:01 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Weepin' lizards, that poor thing...

Should win some award for most proofs though.

Like a GI charm bracelet.

I agree with Dana - the finish might be original, just glazed somehow.

Sadly relegated to shooter value.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:10 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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Funny. Maybe I will sell it and look for a more original one.

One thing is for sure...I will get pictures and opinions before spending any money.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:21 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep2621 View Post
The German proofs make it worth less too?
Any deviation from factory original condition negatively affects value, including refinishing, alterations, replaced parts, cosmetic damage, and non-factory markings. It's certainly not a bad piece, and better than some of the bumper chrome jobs or Bubba re-blues that we sometimes see here, but unfortunately its value is still mostly as a shooter. I'd value it at maybe $1000 or so. If I were you I'd hang on to it, as you've got a decent GI pistol that you can shoot on occasion without feeling like you're committing an act of sacrilege.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.

Last edited by dsk; 06-04-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:22 PM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Hey! Whoa, whoa, whoa... Let's not get too hasty.

I'm just generally opposed to selling a 1911, unless it's leaving the milk on the counter, playing loud music at night, or just being annoying.

There are options, depending on what you're looking for.

One may be a refinish, though some would say no. I'd consider it if it were mine, and in the process of the refin, I'd see if I could gracefully work the "LEAD" out.

RRs are - and likely always will be - my absolute favorite; I can't help but to love them all.

I'm clueless what all the proof marks mean, quite honestly.
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:30 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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I was really wanting a correct model. I didn't think that it was when I got it. (Traded a S&W 460xvr for it.) But I gave it a shot anyway. The .460 wasn't worth $850.

There is a pawn shop about an hour from here that, for some reason, gets more old 1911s than any other place I've seen. I was just thinking I could sell this one to use the money to get a correct one.

Does the LEAD mean Letterkenny army depot?
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:46 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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One last picture.

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  #13  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:49 PM
jrw248 jrw248 is offline
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I would keep it. Although it's refinished (otherwise the German stamps would have bare displaced metal), it has character and the German proof and possible unit stamps make it unusual.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:55 PM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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Thanks.

I suspected what everyone said about the finish. Had no idea about all the proofs.

At least now I won't feel bad about shooting it.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:05 PM
oldcolts oldcolts is offline
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Whoever "refinished" it may not have removed the old finish before applying a coat of whatever that is. The typical rough machining marks are still there on the slide and the frame, which indicates that it was not subjected to heavy buffing. Does that shiny finish extend to the interior of the gun? Did they dip it or just brush the new finish on the exterior? I'm wondering if it would be possible to remove that coating without taking off the original parkerizing, possibly using lacquer thinner or something like that. It might be worthwhile to carefully experiment with this in an inconspicuous place - under the grips or inside the gun.

Those are quite unusual proof marks, and they may tell a story. IMO, proof marks in themselves don't necessarily hurt the value of a gun; they help tell the story about where the gun has been. Many guns have British proof marks that actually add value. Look at those J.P. Morgan 1911 pistols that went to Britain, for example, with the three proof markings on the front of the grip strap. However, I can't think of anything good to say about that LEAD or LEAO inscription . . .
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2012, 11:13 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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That "coating" is probably still the original Parkeriing. Late Remington Rands were finished in a much lighter color than 1943-early '45 ones and often look silvery after they wear. If you traded a S&W 460xvr for it then you still probably came out ahead. So either shoot it and enjoy it, or use the money towards something that you really want. You wouldn't be the first to get your first GI pistol then use it to help you upgrade. My very first USGI was also a Remington Rand, possibly refinished as well (I didn't know enough about them at the time to know the difference). I found a buyer for it, then used the money to buy a nice '43 Colt that I still have.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:07 AM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.

The gun is the same color/texture on the inside as it is on the outside.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:25 AM
oldcolts oldcolts is offline
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I would look for a correct serrated slide stop; they are not hard to find.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2012, 03:05 AM
Body Armor Guy Body Armor Guy is offline
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Is the mainspring housing checkered or serrated? Should be serrated on that year.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:34 AM
daven59 daven59 is offline
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Kinda what I'm looking for. Nice for shooter grade all or mostly all there but messed up just enough to keep the price within reach. Though I thought $1000 was a little high. But in this market as discussed on other threads its most likely right on. I'll keep looking.
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  #21  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:59 AM
Blacksmith Blacksmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven59 View Post
Kinda what I'm looking for. Nice for shooter grade all or mostly all there but messed up just enough to keep the price within reach. Though I thought $1000 was a little high. But in this market as discussed on other threads its most likely right on. I'll keep looking.
Am I missing something?

Am I correct to understand that you think $1000 is reasonable for this example?

Forgive me for saying so, but no way.

Love me some RRs like I do, I'm still looking at this as a 'sum of parts' / shooter specimen.

Certainly everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm reticent to contribute to the price inflation that is already beyond ludicrous.

My 'comfort ceiling' would be $500, though I'm sure a trip to online auction would fetch more.

Last edited by Blacksmith; 06-05-2012 at 07:04 AM.
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  #22  
Old 06-05-2012, 09:09 AM
ep2621 ep2621 is offline
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The MSH is serrated.

I have $850 in the gun. I would sell it for that much. If all I can get for it is $500 then I may as well keep it as a shooter. I don't think I can get a Springfield GI for $500.

I'm not trying to sell it on here BTW. Just curious on what all isn't correct on the gun and wondering about the proofs.

I'm shooting it this evening. I'll let you all know how it does.
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  #23  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:13 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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It looks original to me. Is the feed ramp Parkerized or bare? I have seen this gun before - maybe here or on the other forum, or maybe it was a similarly-marked one. As to whether 'LEAD' is 'Letterkenney Army Depot', I would be surprised if that is not their mark. I don't know how it got the German proofs but possibly LEAD received the pistol when it came back from Germany or had it at some previous time. LEAD was named one of the Ordnance Depots in 1941 and is still repairing ordnance.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:50 AM
38 Super +p 38 Super +p is offline
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Add me to the group that thinks it's the original finish. Too many tool marks to be refinished, IMO. The US Property and Model of 1911A1 US Army rollmarks were quite shallow on later R. Rands. It has been through an arsonal, and has proofmarks, both of which bring the value down. I'd say the $850 is a fair price, not a steal, but not bad. As far as being correct, from what I can tell, It all looks right except the slide stop, which is an early type 1.

Last edited by 38 Super +p; 06-05-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:57 AM
clsc clsc is offline
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I agree with everything 1saxman just said. If it is original with bare feed ramp and the barrel is correct and the bore in good condition and the Letterkenney mark authentic, then at $850 you didn't get burned much if at all. I vote keep it.
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