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  #1  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:51 AM
GlenS GlenS is offline
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Sig MK-25 and Navy SEALs




I recently bought a Sig 226, MK-25 that is a copy of the SEAL pistol. ANyone with knowlege of the SEALs may can answer my question. The SEALs have access to about anything they want in weapons (as they should). Do they actually go for the Sig 226? Or are they going for a different pistol, H&K, FN, 1911 or Glock??? If I can find a decent holster I may carry the MK25 for awhile to see how I like it. I have shot 226's & 228's quite alot but not ones with rails and the machined slides. Sig have a bad rap where I live so used prices are pretty low. Personally I like them and will continue to enjoy the low prices.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:05 PM
kmagnuss kmagnuss is offline
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Why do you care what the SEALs carry? The 226 is an outstanding pistol regardless of what they use. I'm not a seal, so I can't 100% honestly answer your question... from my reading they have used the p226 for quite awhile. I've also read some units were using a 1911 of some sort from time to time.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2012, 01:51 PM
JBright JBright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmagnuss View Post
Why do you care what the SEALs carry? The 226 is an outstanding pistol regardless of what they use. I'm not a seal, so I can't 100% honestly answer your question... from my reading they have used the p226 for quite awhile. I've also read some units were using a 1911 of some sort from time to time.
I do agree. Choose a weapon cause you love it not because seals do. To tell you the truth i dont believe anyone really knows what seals carry besides the seals themselves. If we knew their secrets then they wouldnt be who they are. With that being said i was watching some show on the military channel the other day and they were talking about the 226s the seals carried. They stated that sig custom builds everyone with custom parts not offered to the public. So idk thats just my knowledge from "TV"
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  #4  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:00 PM
TJSaltdog TJSaltdog is offline
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Navy SEALs use an extensive array of firearms of both U.S. and foreign manufacture, several of which have been specifically developed for them or U.S. SOF in general. SEALs have latitude, within designated parameters, in their selection of primary and secondary weapons. The highly-accurate and versatile M4A1 Carbine is the standard issue weapon for SEAL operators, while pistols are usually carried as backup weapons. Weapons choice is always mission-dependent and the SEALs have a wide array of firearms from which to select the precise ones. Following is a representative list of firearms that Navy SEALs currently use, within each class of weapon:

Handguns:
MK23 Mod 0 .45 cal SOCOM Offensive Handgun
M11 Sig Sauer P228 (9mm)
Assault Rifles
M4A1 with SOPMOD Accessory Kit (5.56mm)
Sniper Rifles
M14 Sniper Rifle (7.62mm)
MK11 Mod 0 Sniper Weapon System (7.62mm)
M82A1 Heavy Sniper Rifle (.50 cal)
Submachine Guns
HK MP5 Submachine Gun (9mm)
Machine Guns
M60E3 Machine Gun and MK43 Mod 0 (7.62mm)
M240 (7.62mm)
Combat Shotguns
Benelli M4 Super 90 Shotgun
Grenade Launchers
M203 Grenade Launcher (40mm)
Mortars
M224 Mortar (60mm)
Anti-Tank Rockets
M136 AT4 Light Anti-Tank Rocket

This is copy and paste from www.navyseals.com/weapons-demo
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:12 PM
Siklid Siklid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenS View Post
I recently bought a Sig 226, MK-25 that is a copy of the SEAL pistol. ANyone with knowlege of the SEALs may can answer my question. The SEALs have access to about anything they want in weapons (as they should). Do they actually go for the Sig 226? Or are they going for a different pistol, H&K, FN, 1911 or Glock??? If I can find a decent holster I may carry the MK25 for awhile to see how I like it. I have shot 226's & 228's quite alot but not ones with rails and the machined slides. Sig have a bad rap where I live so used prices are pretty low. Personally I like them and will continue to enjoy the low prices.
I don't think the MK-25 is a copy of that firearm that is handed to SEALs... it is actually the exact same pistol that is issued. Built to the same specs, has the same markings (including the naval anchor on the slide), etc and it should be exactly the same from top to bottom inside and out. This is/was the allure of SIG allowing these firearms to be sold to the public is that it is one of the first times that a manufacturer has allowed the public to purchase exactly that which is issued to SOFs. I could very well be miunderstood here, but this is how it was presented.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2012, 02:43 PM
YVK YVK is offline
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I took a class from a retired SEAL with extensive operational experience. At different times he had carried different pistols in harms' ways, including 1911 and MK25. He shot the pistol portion of that class with a 226 set as a replica of his work 25, and had a 1911 with him that was built according to his beliefs of a duty 1911. A commercially available copy of that 1911 is known as a Cylinder & Slide's Trident.
There was a recent noise about SEALs purchasing few hundred of HK45c pistols too.
The main difference of SEAL's MK25 and commercially available 226 is not in insignia etc., but degree of quality control. I don't know if recently released civilian copy of MK25 undergoes same QC as commercial units of NSW ones.
With that, "what unit carries what" should not be needed for validation of one's choices.
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:07 PM
Siklid Siklid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK View Post
I took a class from a retired SEAL with extensive operational experience. At different times he had carried different pistols in harms' ways, including 1911 and MK25. He shot the pistol portion of that class with a 226 set as a replica of his work 25, and had a 1911 with him that was built according to his beliefs of a duty 1911. A commercially available copy of that 1911 is known as a Cylinder & Slide's Trident.
There was a recent noise about SEALs purchasing few hundred of HK45c pistols too.
The main difference of SEAL's MK25 and commercially available 226 is not in insignia etc., but degree of quality control. I don't know if recently released civilian copy of MK25 undergoes same QC as commercial units of NSW ones.
With that, "what unit carries what" should not be needed for validation of one's choices.
I too have wondered about the QC of the commercially available version, but have not heard one way or the other.

I will also agree that "what unit carries what" should not be the deciding factor in making a choice unless it is strictly for collecting purposes. Just because someone else carries... doesn't mean you have to, or even in some cases, should... Make the decision based on what works best and feels right to you... JMHO
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2012, 03:47 PM
Jester122 Jester122 is offline
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I've read a few books that former Navy Seals have put out.

Dick Marcinko metioned the Beretta and S&W stainless .357 magnum revolvers. Of course, this was also in the 80's. (In his fiction, he likes Glocks, and the H&K P7) Overwhelming preference for 9mm.

Howard Wasdin (a Team 6 Operator--can't find his book right now. He was a sniper during the Black Hawk Down time period.) used the Sig P226.

Chris Kyle's book, American Sniper, mentioned using a Sprigfield Armory 1911 with a rail. After it was damaged from shrapnel (and saving his leg in the process), he started using a Sig P220.

That said, I agree you shouldn't make your decision based on what someone else uses.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:21 PM
samuse samuse is offline
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I have a MK25 with a little over 2K rounds through it. Runs like a top. NO malfunctions or stoppages of any kind.

I like it...

If there were any hope of finding a holster for it, I'd love it.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:33 PM
YVK YVK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuse View Post

If there were any hope of finding a holster for it, I'd love it.
Won't any holster for a railed 226 work?
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:43 PM
Starship Enterpris Starship Enterpris is offline
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Doesn't it fit into a standard Sig 226 9mm holster?
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2012, 05:49 AM
LEO2B LEO2B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenS View Post
Do they actually go for the Sig 226? Or are they going for a different pistol, H&K, FN, 1911 or Glock???
Yes. They get to use whatever they want, as long as it's approved by Command and Teams. Enjoy your local cheap prices.
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:31 AM
TTAC TTAC is offline
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The latest I have heard is they are issued the Mk25/ 226 and the M4 rifle, a 14.5 and I think a 10" top end. with the Sopmod add on kit.
Seal team 6 is issued the H&K 45 compact and the sig 239 for handguns. For rifles the H&K 416 and H&K mP7 Pdw . Plus the Sopmod add on kit.
They can also carry anything they want so you may well see a 1911 in one of their holsters.
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:40 AM
JetBlackGT JetBlackGT is offline
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I would care more what they carry, if I was doing what they are doing.

Sure a .50BMG would be an amazing gun, but I have absolutely no need for that firearm. Same goes for the anti-tank rockets.

I shoot the 1911 because it is perfect for me. I don't care at all, if the SEALs use it or not. I hope they carry what they like, just like I carry what I like
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:41 AM
JetBlackGT JetBlackGT is offline
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I wonder how the SEALs feel about MIM? [duck]
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Cops don't carry guns to protect you, they carry to protect themselves.
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I'd clean more if the spray bottle made a laser noise.
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2012, 08:50 AM
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custom2 custom2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK View Post
Won't any holster for a railed 226 work?
I do believe the MK25 has squared off rails VS rounded rails on the frame. Don't quote me on that but I believe that is the difference that would make holster choices more difficult.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2012, 10:26 AM
garysy garysy is offline
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H&K I think its a m23 in .45 12 rounds. go to there web site it tells all the weapons they use. I can't remember web address. google it i think its navy seal weapons.
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Last edited by garysy; 05-20-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2012, 10:39 AM
garysy garysy is offline
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http://www.navyseals.com/weapons-demo

Its a H&K MK23 .45 12 rounds thats from their web site.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:37 AM
jtq jtq is offline
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Quote:
I do believe the MK25 has squared off rails VS rounded rails on the frame. Don't quote me on that but I believe that is the difference that would make holster choices more difficult.
Yes, the MK25 has a Picatinny rail and not the standard Sig rail. For a well made holster, you'll need one specifically made for the MK25 and not just a Sig 226R holster.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2012, 12:19 PM
Biggus Biggus is online now
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The P226 has been the main issue pistol since around 1987. The old Mk23 Mod 0 was turned in by most of NSW's units, but apparently one of the SDV teams refused to turn them in. In their place, Smith 686s were issued for swimming ops.

Around 2004ish, the USP45CT was looked at as an option for a proper replacement of the Mk23, but it wasn't picked up as an issue weapon. Fast forward to last year and an order was placed for a large quantity of HK45CTs to be issued in the same roles as the Mk23 was once used for. This weapon is currently in the toolbox under the designation of Mk24.

There are a few other things in the armory. There are P239s, some P228s and Walther PPK/Ss in .380. Smith 686s, as mentioned. These replaced the 66s that Team 6 used in the early days. Glocks were tested and found wanting when the SEALs were looking for a Beretta replacement in the late 80s.

There might be a couple of other pistols in the mix, but not many. A few frogs occasionally carry their own stuff under specific circumstances, but plenty aren't 'gun guys' and carry what they're given without too much worry. One of the more common misconceptions is that they can carry whatever they want, but this is generally not true.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:28 PM
ekaphoto ekaphoto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggus View Post
The P226 has been the main issue pistol since around 1987. The old Mk23 Mod 0 was turned in by most of NSW's units, but apparently one of the SDV teams refused to turn them in. In their place, Smith 686s were issued for swimming ops.

Around 2004ish, the USP45CT was looked at as an option for a proper replacement of the Mk23, but it wasn't picked up as an issue weapon. Fast forward to last year and an order was placed for a large quantity of HK45CTs to be issued in the same roles as the Mk23 was once used for. This weapon is currently in the toolbox under the designation of Mk24.

There are a few other things in the armory. There are P239s, some P228s and Walther PPK/Ss in .380. Smith 686s, as mentioned. These replaced the 66s that Team 6 used in the early days. Glocks were tested and found wanting when the SEALs were looking for a Beretta replacement in the late 80s.

There might be a couple of other pistols in the mix, but not many. A few frogs occasionally carry their own stuff under specific circumstances, but plenty aren't 'gun guys' and carry what they're given without too much worry. One of the more common misconceptions is that they can carry whatever they want, but this is generally not true.
Have there been any problems with the P226 over the long haul that you know about? I know the SAS turned in their hi powers for the Sig P226 several years ago.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:41 PM
JGus JGus is offline
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Why are some people beating up on the OP for wanting the same pistol used by the Navy SEALS? Hey, if the most elite fighting unit in the world uses a specific model, then it must be one of the best pistols available.

I would, however, be curious as to where the original OP lives, as he states that Sigs have a bad rap in his area. I've never heard that before. In my personal opinion (I own two Sig 1911's, a P226 9mm, a P226 X-5 Competition .40s&w, and a P220 SS Elite Match) they are one of the finest handguns made.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:48 PM
BoulderTroll BoulderTroll is offline
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Originally Posted by ekaphoto View Post
Have there been any problems with the P226 over the long haul that you know about? I know the SAS turned in their hi powers for the Sig P226 several years ago.
More like many years ago. As for reliability, the P226 and P228 have outstanding reputations in the middle east. Arguably the best of any weapon over there (if anecdotal stories are to be believed).

I've read that SEALs also carry the S&W 340 PD Airweight snubby on occassion.

The only handgun I can confirm that they carry is the P226. Team 1 sent one of their guys to a two week course I took, and that was his issue sidearm and what he used for the course. He mentioned that they are trained to cock the hammer manually before performing a press check, to make it easier. They also favor the SIG over striker fired weapons like the Glock, because they are trained to place their thumb over the hammer during holstering, to avoid ND's.

As for choosing a handgun or firearm based on what a "special" team uses, I don't have a problem with it. To be honest, I think there are much worse ways out there to choose a gun. After all, when a group of elite guys get a weapon, someone else has usually spent a gazillion dollars testing various platforms and writing up criteria. Why not enjoy the benefits of someone else's costly and time consuming research? I have a P226 (first handgun I ever bought), that I would feel 100% confident using as a duty weapon. As it is, I am issued a Glock 22 and after training with it and carrying it for the past decade or so, I am very confident in it as well. Do I feel like I should switch to the P226 because SEALs carry it? Of course not. But it'd still be a great choice.
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Last edited by BoulderTroll; 05-20-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2012, 12:49 PM
Biggus Biggus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaphoto
Have there been any problems with the P226 over the long haul that you know about? I know the SAS turned in their hi powers for the Sig P226 several years ago.
Nothing significant. Rust is probably the biggest issue I've heard about, particularly with magazines, but that's to be expected in the environment that they work in. They last a long time, much longer than the M4s do, apparently. The stainless slide was probably considered a godsend by the armorers when it became available, although I don't know how long it took for them to be adopted by the Navy.

There are a few different 'generations' (for lack of a better term) of P226 seen in the inventories. There's a good number of unrailed P226s, plenty of the propietary Sig rail pistols, and now these new Picatinny railed pistols. There's been a couple of designations used. My understanding is that the first designation was Mk24, which is now the designator for the DA/SA decock-only variant HK45CT that they've just taken in.

The British are much the same. I haven't seen folded slides in use with either SAS or NSW for awhile, but they're probably out there. The NZ SAS use the P226 as well, but I'm not sure what configuration.

Here in Australia, the Hi Power is still in very limited use with our high speed low drag types, but the USP9T has been the main sidearm for a few years.

Last edited by Biggus; 05-20-2012 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Thought I'd better quote what I was replying to.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:17 PM
rebelxd1224 rebelxd1224 is offline
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I just got done reading "American Sniper" by Chris Kyle. He's a former US Navy Seal Sniper. He stated in his book that he carried the P226 for a while. But that he then wanted a .45 Auto round so he went with a Springfield TRP until it got damaged by some shrapnel. He then carried a Sig P220.
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