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  #1  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:47 PM
Russ346 Russ346 is offline
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Calibers




I work for a Sheriffs Office and I carry a Springfield TRP and have a Smith 1911SC bobtail for off duty love both guns and the caliber.But sometimes I wonder about getting more penetration I do not like the 40 SW but what would be a good round or caliber far as shooting say thru a car door.

I wonder about 38 Super, 10MM and the 357 Sig.Currently I carry 45 230 grain ranger round.Would corbon or a plus P round work
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Doug M again Doug M again is offline
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Google up Dr. Gary Roberts and his published materials on service caliber ammo. If no place else, it is on m4carbine.net.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2012, 11:06 PM
Steelplate45 Steelplate45 is offline
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The 10mm and the 357 Sig have better glass and metal penetration than the others.
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2012, 11:14 PM
Russ346 Russ346 is offline
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I was wondering if anyone carries the 38 super as a duty weapon
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:41 AM
d.bateman d.bateman is offline
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38Super is a good duty round but you need to get properly loaded ammo for it . Not weak stuff a lot of manufactures seem to be making at the moment .

It was a favourite with gangsters and law men alike back in the day and for good reason .


It works well .
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:09 AM
supervel supervel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelplate45 View Post
The 10mm and the 357 Sig have better glass and metal penetration than the others.
Second that. Texas DPS uses the Sig for that very reason.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:22 AM
CrackShot! CrackShot! is offline
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.44 magnum any one?

But seriously 180gr HP 10mm probably the best bet with your given choices. gives tons of penetration and still a good bit of expansion once you get to you target.
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:56 AM
d.bateman d.bateman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ346 View Post
what would be a good round or caliber far as shooting say thru a car door.
38Super
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“The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.” — Col. Jeff Cooper, GUNS & AMMO, January 2002
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:08 AM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
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Russ.....Since you already are using a .45 ACP platform,you need to look no further than Bonded ammunition,,,,,,Winchester Ranger JHP RA45B...or Speer Gold Dot or Federal ,as long as they meet DOJ specs for penetration and expansion. The load I listed does,including barrier penetration....It's what I carry.
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:11 AM
supervel supervel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 139 View Post
Russ.....Since you already are using a .45 ACP platform,you need to look no further than Bonded ammunition,,,,,,Winchester Ranger JHP RA45B...or Speer Gold Dot or Federal ,as long as they meet DOJ specs for penetration and expansion. The load I listed does,including barrier penetration....It's what I carry.
How about a spare mag of KTW or Arcane,or some other AP.That is the only way 45acp will pentrate car bodies reliabley,trust me,bonded not enough.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:38 AM
Texas Trooper Texas Trooper is offline
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As posted earlier - .357 Sig is used by Texas DPS. It was tested pretty extensively and was found to be one of the most reliable rounds through car glass and bodies. Shotgun slugs and rifles are best for killing cars though!

Last edited by Texas Trooper; 04-25-2012 at 09:39 AM. Reason: add word
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:59 AM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supervel View Post
How about a spare mag of KTW or Arcane,or some other AP.That is the only way 45acp will pentrate car bodies reliabley,trust me,bonded not enough.
Following the 1986 Miami shootout with platt and mattix, DOJ did extensive testing on various calibers and bullet types.....barrier penetration as well as penetration and expansion were required to meet certain minimums....the Bonded ammo does.....Ammunition has come along way since the supervel light jacketed hollowpoint ammunition of the 70's,developed by Lee Jurras, and the alloy bullets of the KTW rounds...Nobody I'm aware of carries those out of production obsolete rounds.


I don.t know where you work, but our Dept. policy is you don't shoot at a car to stop it, you shoot at the driver and the thin metal of today's vehicles are not the heavy steel from the 50.s...glass deflection had always been an issue.


Delta Kilo has spent alot of time and effort providing information under the "ammo" section of this forum.
.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:07 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supervel View Post
How about a spare mag of KTW or Arcane,or some other AP.That is the only way 45acp will pentrate car bodies reliabley,trust me,bonded not enough.

Where would cops come up with a mag of ammo that hasn't been made in decades?
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:11 AM
HT77 HT77 is offline
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If .357 Sig is good enough for the Texas Rangers and US Secret Service in terms of handgun penetration and effectiveness its good enough.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:14 AM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ346 View Post
I work for a Sheriffs Office and I carry a Springfield TRP and have a Smith 1911SC bobtail for off duty love both guns and the caliber.But sometimes I wonder about getting more penetration I do not like the 40 SW but what would be a good round or caliber far as shooting say thru a car door.

I wonder about 38 Super, 10MM and the 357 Sig.Currently I carry 45 230 grain ranger round.Would corbon or a plus P round work
If you need to see it with your own eyes to know, get permission get some car doors from the junk yard, take them to your PD range and test it out...IF you can do it safely because there is a ricochet hazard.

Last edited by Redhat; 04-26-2012 at 06:28 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:00 PM
supervel supervel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
Where would cops come up with a mag of ammo that hasn't been made in decades?
Trust me there is new stuff available,I was just using those two to make my point,you are correct they no longer make those two brands.The problem might be to get it approved.Most peope have not heard of the new brands but alot of people have heard of KTW.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:10 PM
mark2734 mark2734 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Trooper View Post
As posted earlier - .357 Sig is used by Texas DPS. It was tested pretty extensively and was found to be one of the most reliable rounds through car glass and bodies. Shotgun slugs and rifles are best for killing cars though!
At best your still looking very iffy for shooting through car doors with the best handgun ammo. Remember car doors are NOT hollow. They have stuff like airbags, struts, window motors and such in them making it hard to pentatrate. As for windshields, their laminated safety glass construction just sucks for trying to shoot through with anything hand held.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2012, 06:59 PM
karlglen101 karlglen101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ346 View Post
I work for a Sheriffs Office and I carry a Springfield TRP and have a Smith 1911SC bobtail for off duty love both guns and the caliber.But sometimes I wonder about getting more penetration I do not like the 40 SW but what would be a good round or caliber far as shooting say thru a car door.

I wonder about 38 Super, 10MM and the 357 Sig.Currently I carry 45 230 grain ranger round.Would corbon or a plus P round work
Have you read this thread?
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=291745
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:16 AM
Russ346 Russ346 is offline
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Thanks I appreciate everyones input
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:47 AM
crackshotsdad crackshotsdad is offline
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I think its unlikely you'll find a 'duty' caliber that will reliably penetrate car doors, especially if its an old Chevy or something.
A full power 158 gr. .357 mag soft point or fmj would be a good choice. 10mm with a 180 gr fmj at full power would be another.
With all the mechanisms inside the average car door, I wouldn't count on any duty caliber getting through with predictable regularity. Just my 2 cents.
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  #21  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:51 AM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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Originally Posted by crackshotsdad View Post
I think its unlikely you'll find a 'duty' caliber that will reliably penetrate car doors, especially if its an old Chevy or something.
A full power 158 gr. .357 mag soft point or fmj would be a good choice. 10mm with a 180 gr fmj at full power would be another.
With all the mechanisms inside the average car door, I wouldn't count on any duty caliber getting through with predictable regularity. Just my 2 cents.
What will or will not or even "may" happen is best proven by doing it. Again, old car doors from a junk yard tested will reveal some things.
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  #22  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:57 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
What will or will not or even "may" happen is best proven by doing it. Again, old car doors from a junk yard tested will reveal some things.
They will reveal that it's hard to consistently get a pistol round inside a car without opening the door first.
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  #23  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:07 PM
John M John M is offline
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I'm curious why you don't like the 40? It's the most popular LE caliber for a reason.
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  #24  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:28 PM
crackshotsdad crackshotsdad is offline
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Originally Posted by BillD View Post
They will reveal that it's hard to consistently get a pistol round inside a car without opening the door first.
I thank you for the back-up Bill!

I guess I should've mentioned that I've shot a few (junk) car doors in my efforts to find a duty round that will consistently penetrate through to the inside. The only 'consistent' results I got was that penetration was 'inconsistent' at best, with a wide variety of duty calibers.

I found that a .308 will consistently go through most car doors, 20 for 20 out of my H&K91, but that's apples and oranges.
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:34 PM
Redhat Redhat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
They will reveal that it's hard to consistently get a pistol round inside a car without opening the door first.
Yeah Bill and that might just be the point...still it can be a good thing to witness it with your own eyes. It might also reveal that being behind the car door if you're the one taking fire might not be the best situation.
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