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  #26  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:31 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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I kinda DID invite him to help himself but if you read the first post and how stuff was laid out it seemed (seemed he said) pretty self explanatory.

Three full mags, one empty gun locked open....and one box of WWB with exactly 5 slid out and showing. He picked the one of the latter even though the mags were just screaming to be used.

Honestly I never in a million years thought he would do anything BUT pick up a mag and slide it in. I did run through in my head if he would chamber it with the slide stop or pull back on it and let fly but never did I think he would breech load it like that.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:29 AM
HarryO45 HarryO45 is offline
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I have had the same thing happen. I did not say anything either, but I did learn a lesson.

I am an 1911 ambassador and like to let folks experiance it.

I give clear instructions as loading from the mag- you can do it in a nice way - I usually hand them the mag and say " finish this mag off until the slide locks back", then just set ithe pistol on the bench.

I have also had a guy finish firing a mag then clear the weapon and proudly drop the hammer to half cock as an "extra safety precausion"

Somebody said it right, random people do random stuff...yep!

I still like to share the 1911 with folks, if they show an interest I explain to them about the gun until they look uninterested.
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2012, 04:25 PM
twitchn1911 twitchn1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle M. View Post
Strange as it may seem the owners manual for the 92fs I had said that part of the reason for the open top slide was so you could chamber single rounds if you lost the magazine. Maybe it doesnt hurt the beretta due to the external extractor?
yes that is correct. the external extractor is able to move over the rim of the case while loading without damaging the extractor. it is meant to be loaded that way as you said.
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2012, 05:52 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
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Jim, MIM parts have their place but not in high stress applications. To imply that MIM is a good as any other material/process is just not factual. A high quality extractor will be made out of something like 4140 pre-heat treated chrome moly steel bar stock which will have a hardness of somethng like 28 to 32 Rockwell C. If you pistol has an MIM extractor, I'd recommend that you consider a replacement. Rick
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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They can injection mold virtually ANY formula including 4140 (and chrome and a bunch of other stuff) and with better magnetic and machining properties.

I'm not saying large weapons manufacturers ARE in fact doing this I am saying to just toss it out there as inadequate without having any idea what they are using is inaccurate...which it is. I haven't tested any so I don't know. I DO know they make some damn good stuff today. Aircraft quality stuff. Look into it for yourself.

Ed Brown's extractors are listed at 30 Rockwell. Brownells are 50. What is the frame? Who knows. SOMETHING is going to wear out.
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  #31  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:10 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
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Jim, I should probably elaborate on my comment. MIM tends to result in a more coarse grain structure which can adversely effect ductility and strength. The lower material density of material that is metal injection molded is the result of very small voids in the material which can result in less elongation and resulting fracture at lower stress levels when compared to a similar metal processed in a more conventional manner. This is one of those things that is not the case with every part. Basically, I characterize it as a broader variation than one would expect when compared to an identical part fabricated from a similar material processed in a more conventional manner. Rick
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  #32  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:13 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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We were writing at the same time

I just think you are still thinking 10 years ago Rick. Just do a little reading.

Again I AM NOT SAYING off the shelf, low end guns come with these quality products but they may. It's certainly possible. They are not expensive or hard to make anymore.

Time...marches on!
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:21 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
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Jim, I'd personally be concerned about an extractor that had a hardness of 50 Rockwell C. My concern stems from the fact that anything that hard likely is somewhat brittle (and thus possibly not adequately ductile). An extractor needs to be tensioned so will necessarily undergo plastic deformation. A very brittle material doesn't have much elongation between yield and ultimate failure. Just a guess on my part but I'd feel a lot better with an extractor that had a hardness of 30 Rockwell C. Rick
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  #34  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:25 PM
rickgman rickgman is offline
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Jim, Time does progress but many fundamentals don't change much. No injection molding process yields the same density of conventional processes and voids are not desireable in a highly stress part. It is acceptable in some applications for sure but I'd not wish to bet on some others. You may choose MIM parts but an old guy like me will stick with parts machined from bar stock. Rick
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:51 PM
tothetop tothetop is offline
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Well, to add to the OP's thread, I had a similar situation this past weekend with a RO that was just unbelivable.

I was visiting a range with a friend this weekend while out of town, and he brought his girlfriend along who had just received a very cool, very old S&W 38 special he father had given her. She had never shot before, so my friend and I agreed that she should probably just shoot her revolver and maybe my GP100 loaded with 38 special and leave it at that. We figured she'd be just fine learning how to shoot with some basic, easy firing guns like the 38's, and we wouldn't have her fire any of the 45's. Didn't want to make her gun-shy. At the range she was doing just fine, taking note of our instruction and hitting the paper 5 out of 6 most times.

But then here comes the pot-bellied over-bearing RO to give her some tips. (And yes, she was the typical blonde hottie you usually see at any given range.) Well, no problem, at first, as anyone appericiates good advice or a few tips from someone hopefully more knowledgible, even if unsolicited. My friend and I were willing to give him a few moments in the sun, but then his well-meaning tips seemed to turn into a lesson. And then a longer lesson. My friend and I exchanged annoyed glances as we watched the clock realizing we were losing precious range minutes. I couldn't believe how bad his ettiquite was.

Then, you guessed it, the RO picks up my GI. He doesn't ask, just picks it up and starts in on everything he knows about expert shooting. At this point I feel he has crossed the line and I told my friends girl that she didnt have to shoot the 45 if she didnt want to. She was like a deer in headlights at the awkwardness of the situation. Then, yep, he puts in a mag, again without asking and shows her how to hold it, cycle it etc. Now we're just down right taken aback. My friend stepped up and told his girl again, that she didnt have to shoot it if she didnt want to. The RO acted as if we werent even there. So he has her fire the whole mag off, and then he turns around looking so pleased with himself and then has the nerve to say, "there's a complimentary free lesson for you. I normally charge for that." And then he left for the store area. I was in utter disbelief. If that had been my home range I would have made a very vocal complaint to the the range owner, but I was a visitor at this range, and let it go.

What was the first thing out of her mouth after the fact? "I don't like that gun." Well no kidding. And frankly none of us liked the experience, and won't be back there. It is amazing how bad some patrons of a range can be, but this is the first time I have seen a RO act worse than the customers.

However, there was a shining moment to the day. Finally after seeing my friend and I put a handful of 357 through my GP100 my friends girlfriend said, "you know, I'd really like to try that one. I think it's funny how high everyone jumps when it goes off." And, she liked that gun.

Sorry for the typo's, gotta get back to work! Quick!
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