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  #1  
Old 04-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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RO No-No?




Hi All,

Went to a public range this morning with the wife (her first time). I borrowed a 9mm for her from a friend and took my Regent. She was really nervous. Usually it's a zoo but thankfully it was pretty dead and the RO hung around a lot. Young guy, seemed to know what he was talking about, gave the wife some good advice. She got better and better while we watched and we coached the best we knew how.

Near the end of the session I was just letting her shoot and talking to the RO about the 1911 because he noticed it and he said he had one (yada, yada) and how he broke his down fully right off the bat because he HAD to find out how they worked but suggested that I did not do the same if I was not mechanically inclined because a lot of them ended up in their smith's shop in a box. I just told him I was and I understood why he would say that. He said he was training for his "masters gun certification" or something to that effect. Seemed a little odd but not too much so. Just small talk.

So the wife gets done and I ask him if he wants to put a mag down range in mine and he says sure. Now my gun is locked open with no mag in it. On the table with it are three full mags and an open box of ammo. He proceeds to pick up the gun, pull a round from the box, drop it into the chamber and flip the slide stop down.

I cringed. Actually I think I may have whimpered out loud.

I almost stopped him but it happened so fast I never got the words out. It was in and done and ready to fire in a couple seconds and by then it was too late. He shoots the one round, locks it back open and sets it down with a "Hey that shoots nice". He was so nice the whole time I didn't have the heart to say anything to him. Actually I even commented to the guy at the counter how helpful he was. The guy said that was good to hear and knocked like $5 off the bill.

So ya..what do ya do ya know? Should I E-mail him you think or just let it go? The guy next to us was shooting what looked like a Kimber CDPII and would have likely stroked out if he had done that to him I think.

Am I making too much of that one time? No harm no foul maybe??
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:07 PM
TClark22 TClark22 is offline
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i probably wouldn't have said anything either. but i am the shy type. however it would be my gun and i am very protective of my belongings. I take care of my things, and the manual has a big warning saying not to drop a round in the barrel and let the slide bang in place. Could easily result in a AD
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:09 PM
skipsan skipsan is offline
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No harm, no foul in my view. No need to hurt the kids feelings. You know now, to watch out in the future should your paths cross again. Now if he had done something dangerous, that would be another story.
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:14 PM
Vernon Vernon is offline
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As an RO, that is a HUGE no no and would either talk with the RO directly on that or their super as that is something that, despite common "knowledge", is fairly negligent and can damage the gun. I have seen quite a few guns over the years fail that way...
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:53 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Although it's not a good practice and should be avoided,
if it happens once it won't automatically wreck & ruin your gun forever.

If the guy helped my wife learn to shoot and he was friendly to me,
I would totally ignore it, knowing that the gun isn't ruined.
Kinda saying to myself: So what? The world didn't end and the gun is OK.
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  #6  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:50 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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This is what I would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
Although it's not a good practice and should be avoided,
if it happens once it won't automatically wreck & ruin your gun forever.

If the guy helped my wife learn to shoot and he was friendly to me,
I would totally ignore it, knowing that the gun isn't ruined.
Kinda saying to myself: So what? The world didn't end and the gun is OK.
Maybe I would check the extractor later. But I would not lose a whole lot of sleep over it. Additionally I would not let that guy handle any more of my guns. There are enough real things in liife to worry about.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:27 PM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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Had that happen once...from that point forward I load the gun for whomever would be shooting my gun, put the safety on and hand it to them....too many damn slide droppers and goofs who want to do something like your guy did.
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  #8  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:09 PM
radomowski radomowski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_L View Post

So ya..what do ya do ya know? Should I E-mail him you think or just let it go? The guy next to us was shooting what looked like a Kimber CDPII and would have likely stroked out if he had done that to him I think.

Am I making too much of that one time? No harm no foul maybe??
I doubt the RO would believe you.

A friend of mine, an O-6 who I served with many times throughout the years, did the exact same thing to one of my 1911s. Mind you, we both started our careers with 1911A1s & M-14s.

He never believed me until we were with a good friend, fellow vet & expert gunsmith. THEN he was a believer.

People believe what they want until they are "enlightened" by someone they think are an "authority".

Onesy, twosy dropping a slide on a round will not break an extractor. It is designed to take it. But obviously depends upon the quality of the metal the extractor is made of.

If it still bugs you, be polite & state that the 1911 internal extractor is designed to strip a round off the top of a magazine. Dropping the slide on a round in the chamber causes the extractor to excessivley bend, which can break the extractor.

Further, if you ever do that again to my 1911...............
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:27 AM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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It doesn't really bug me that much.

Like the other poster said he helped my wife enough that even if he broke it outright I still wouldn't be too worked up about it. It's just a thing and things can be replaced. I did look at it and it does have a weird looking, shiny, round-ish wear mark on it's nose but it may have before for all I know. I never really paid that much attention.

My only concern is going down the road and having him repeat it for a real jack@ss with a safe queen who hits the roof and causes a scene. You know it's going to happen sooner or later.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:43 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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I don't let people I don't know shoot my guns.
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:06 AM
Lorenzo Lorenzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I don't let people I don't know shoot my guns.
My policy as well. Let a random dude shoot it, expect random stuff to happen.
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:57 AM
GKC GKC is offline
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This is something that I didn't know myself until I first started reading this forum. I don't know if it is mentioned in the manual or not but it may not be something that is routinely covered.

I was watching one of the Lethal Weapon series last night (III, I think) and Mel Gibson is demonstrating a "cop killer" round to some of his fellow officers. His Beretta 92FS is locked open, he inserts the round into the chamber, and releases the slide using the slide stop. I thought "oh, he shouldn't do that" and then remembered it was a movie, and that may not have even been a real gun. Real or not, though, much of what we see on TV and in the movies is simply wrong, and makes me wonder why the technical advisers aren't correcting them.

Of course, I have read that the "cocking sound" you frequently hear when an actor draws his Glock is put in there for drama, so perhaps they have no interest in accuracy anyway.
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:31 AM
Kyle M. Kyle M. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
This is something that I didn't know myself until I first started reading this forum. I don't know if it is mentioned in the manual or not but it may not be something that is routinely covered.

I was watching one of the Lethal Weapon series last night (III, I think) and Mel Gibson is demonstrating a "cop killer" round to some of his fellow officers. His Beretta 92FS is locked open, he inserts the round into the chamber, and releases the slide using the slide stop. I thought "oh, he shouldn't do that" and then remembered it was a movie, and that may not have even been a real gun. Real or not, though, much of what we see on TV and in the movies is simply wrong, and makes me wonder why the technical advisers aren't correcting them.

Of course, I have read that the "cocking sound" you frequently hear when an actor draws his Glock is put in there for drama, so perhaps they have no interest in accuracy anyway.
Strange as it may seem the owners manual for the 92fs I had said that part of the reason for the open top slide was so you could chamber single rounds if you lost the magazine. Maybe it doesnt hurt the beretta due to the external extractor?
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:34 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
This is something that I didn't know myself until I first started reading this forum. I don't know if it is mentioned in the manual or not but it may not be something that is routinely covered.

I was watching one of the Lethal Weapon series last night (III, I think) and Mel Gibson is demonstrating a "cop killer" round to some of his fellow officers. His Beretta 92FS is locked open, he inserts the round into the chamber, and releases the slide using the slide stop. I thought "oh, he shouldn't do that" and then remembered it was a movie, and that may not have even been a real gun. Real or not, though, much of what we see on TV and in the movies is simply wrong, and makes me wonder why the technical advisers aren't correcting them.

Of course, I have read that the "cocking sound" you frequently hear when an actor draws his Glock is put in there for drama, so perhaps they have no interest in accuracy anyway.
Yeah, they also showed Mel firing a fully automatic weapon at a car in traffic. I'm not sure they let the police get by with that.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:56 PM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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To be fair he wasn't really a "random dude". He was the RO and is supposed to know what up. At least I thought so from listening to him.

Again, you are right I am not disputing that. I invited it and I probably would again in the spirit that many gun owners seem to share. It just seemed odd that a day in day out professional would do it.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2012, 08:18 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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My impression is that the definition of a range officer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_L View Post
To be fair he wasn't really a "random dude". He was the RO and is supposed to know what up. At least I thought so from listening to him.

Again, you are right I am not disputing that. I invited it and I probably would again in the spirit that many gun owners seem to share. It just seemed odd that a day in day out professional would do it.
Is pretty loosely interpreted depending on the range. How much can you really expect a guy or girl to know for eight bucks an hour?
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:57 PM
LOU D LOU D is offline
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I wouldn't have gone postal on him for sure,but,at the very least,in a fatherly way,I would have said something like:"hey bud,maybe you're not really familiar with 1911's,but dropping the slide on a chambered round like that is really bad for the extractor. In fact,it's really not a good thing to do to any automatic,but it's particularly bad for the 1911"..Just thought you should know..Could save him from having some guy with a $4500.00 gun take his head off..
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:52 AM
Patrick Kelly Patrick Kelly is offline
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An RO is responsible for monitoring safety, not for being a weapons expert. Assuming an RO on a public range is an expert in anything is a dangerous assumption. The best policy is to assume everyone at a public range is a farbing idiot.

What he did was the easiest way to break a 1911 extractor. The extractor in the Regent is an MIM part that should be replaced regardless.

The Berreta has a spring tensioned external extractor that won't suffer damage if loaded in that fashion.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:08 AM
Corrigun Corrigun is offline
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Well again, in all fairness I didn't really assume he was an expert. He claimed to be nearly complete with his "master firearm" certification (or something to that affect).

Now having been in the automotive machining business for over two decades I know a lot of ASE "certified" machinists that I would not let work on my lawn mower so I probably should have known better but usually you can tell a BS master from someone who actually knows whats up and he seemed the latter. It's my bad I know.

Actually as a machinist I would like to say for the record that just grouping the term "MIM" parts like they are made from peanut butter or tin foil is grossly inaccurate. It is true that some are low quality/low strength but it is also true that a well made injection molded part can be as "strong" (another pretty loose term) as any other forged or cast machined part made of any material.

It's all true, do some research on modern injection molding the materials used and their performance characteristics. You will be surprised what you find.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:25 AM
Tenringx2 Tenringx2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
An RO is responsible for monitoring safety, not for being a weapons expert. Assuming an RO on a public range is an expert in anything is a dangerous assumption. The best policy is to assume everyone at a public range is a farbing idiot.
Agreed..............There are lots of experts out there and they will tell you so!
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  #21  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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AndyC AndyC is offline
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ROs certainly don't know everything (I'm a case in point ), but I always welcome the opportunity to have my knowledge expanded.

If it were my pistol he'd used, I might have said something along the lines of "Ok, the preferred way to chamber a round is..... for XY and Z reasons, know what I mean?" and see if the lightbulb came on.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:59 PM
1903 1903 is offline
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No harm, no foul.

Out of ignorance I was doing that very thing almost regularly. I'd go to the range, and load a mag, then load the chamber, put the safety on, and insert mag. Then off we go. Like I said, out of ignorance. It wasn't til I started reading and posting here that I came to the knowledge that it was bad for the extractor. Whoops. So far no harm done.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:15 PM
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I would have nicely said something,not only is it my gun but most people don't know how to properly fit one,let alone know if they got one spec'd out long.

A good 1911 extractor will take a little abuse but I wouldn't push a MIM onenot only for breaking but they lose their ability to retain tension quicker.Externals like Beretta will deal with it much better but I wouldn't push them either.The spring wasn't really designed to work that way,but if that area is gunked up it will snap one of those too (alot are MIM,HK's is).

MIM is a can of worms.Done correctly it is fine.The problem in 1911s is that quality for the situation they use it in.Hammers can lose their 'edge' quicker,slidestops can't handle the pressure and break,yadayada.Some are done right and some aren't,the manufacturers are at the mercy of the vendor they choose on this.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:23 PM
Red Dirt Dave Red Dirt Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_L View Post
... He proceeds to pick up the gun, pull a round from the box, drop it into the chamber and flip the slide stop... ??
Even with the invitation to shoot your firearm, I think that the young man was a bit presumptuous to just pick it up, (mis)load and shoot it.

Unless, of course, you told him to help himself.

Probably just a lapse in his manners.

Gentle Correction in private, rather than in the company of others, would be appropriate. It will keep him from public embarrassment at some point in the future.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:08 PM
car-man car-man is offline
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I agree with the thought that a quiet correction would have been fine. I would have felt compelled to do so as it's hard to watch that withoug saying something at some point before leaving.

I have ROd on occasion and do get invited to "try" this firearm or that, I never take them up on it as you never know what could go wrong and as an RO you do represent the range and I'm sure could incur some liability for them.

Just my 2 cents.
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