sw29 vs. blackhawk .45colt. Odd comparison, yes. In general or in the woods?

[SW686man]

Originally Posted by Capt. Methane

I used to have a Blackhawk in .357. Got tired of ejecting the shells one at a time, if you aren't into the single action/cowboy shooting thing there's no reason to limit yourself with it.

The Blackhawk was replaced with a S&W 57...

Not that there is anything wrong with the Rugers, but at least the old Smiths were a lot smoother, can't speak to the action on a current DA Ruger but the Redhawk might be an option.

I'd still go with the S&W...save for an extra couple of months or put it on layaway!

Well my reason for considering the Ruger was because it is "different" than what I'm used to and would offer something different than my 686. I really do like my 686, but I thought it would be extremely cool to have a large bore single action Ruger in .45 colt since it can be loaded to .44 mag levels or higher whereas the model 29 would be basically just a larger caliber/weight but same overall gun as my 686 which in this case would make it less interesting, do you know what I mean?. The money is totally irrelevant in this case, I'm just debating the pros and cons of each

[supervel]

If you are talking about critters that bite I would pick the S and W.You would have more of a chance of getting off a second shot,and I doubt reload speed will matter.Power wise they can be loaded almost the same.

[Sundance]

Originally Posted by supervel

If you are talking about critters that bite I would pick the S and W.You would have more of a chance of getting off a second shot,and I doubt reload speed will matter.Power wise they can be loaded almost the same.

Shooting a single action revolver with two hands and thumb cocking with the weak hand is almost as fast as firing a double action revolver. Watch cowboy action shooters do it.

[BillD]

Originally Posted by Sundance

Shooting a single action revolver with two hands and thumb cocking with the weak hand is almost as fast as firing a double action revolver. Watch cowboy action shooters do it.

Yep, for 6 shots.

I would go with a Smith M25 in .45 Colt.

[supervel]

That is true about SA speed and you are good and in a match.I allways wondered why they invented DA revolvers anyway?

[BillD]

Originally Posted by supervel

That is true about SA speed and you are good and in a match.I allways wondered why they invented DA revolvers anyway?

When you are ready to fire your seventh shot, you'll have figured it out.

[Lordofbarbeque]

Us SA guys don't need no 7th shot. That's why you see SA's like the Ruger SBH getting converted to 5 shot cylinders. We have to hit our target. S&W 686's go to the performance shop to get another round added to their cylinder so that they can feel better about not practicing as much.

SA guys hit their target the first time, while you DA guys are spraying all over the place because you can dump another load in.

SW686 man up and buy a real wheelgun from a real era when men were men!









This does not apply to S&W 500 revolvers, but then he did not bring it up.

[BillD]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Us SA guys don't need no 7th shot. That's why you see SA's like the Ruger SBH getting converted to 5 shot cylinders. We have to hit our target. S&W 686's go to the performance shop to get another round added to their cylinder so that they can feel better about not practicing as much.

SA guys hit their target the first time, while you DA guys are spraying all over the place because you can dump another load in.

SW686 man up and buy a real wheelgun from a real era when men were men!










This does not apply to S&W 500 revolvers, but then he did not bring it up.

Ah, but it's how many targets you are shooting now isn't it???

[glider]

Loading a 45 to eqaul 44mag doesn't work if you're also loading 44mag hot. You certainly can increase the performance of the 45 but you can't make it a 44mag. Got to compare apples to apples.

[supervel]

Originally Posted by glider

Loading a 45 to eqaul 44mag doesn't work if you're also loading 44mag hot. You certainly can increase the performance of the 45 but you can't make it a 44mag. Got to compare apples to apples.

Load a old model 29 hot and see how long it lasts.Worse with 25-5 45 Colt.Any body remember Elmer?A Ruger SA is different in both Calibers.With a 5 shot cyl. the 45 is a little more powerful than a 44.

[Lordofbarbeque]

Gotta go with Supervel on this one. The facts according to John Linebaugh support the lowly 45colt achieving the same or better Taylor Knockdown rating as 44 mag without having to reach the same pressures ( 32K vs 40K ). It is a great read on Linebaugh's "sixgun" website. I think it is under myths section.

But, you need a real gun to achieve those results, ie, a Ruger BH bisley frame, baby!!

[FN in MT]

Five shot cylinders are of course stronger as the bolt cutout isn't OVER the cylinder. One of THE issues with the old Colt SAA's in .45 Colt. Very little meat left over that bolt cut. Problem being a five shot Ruger conversion IS expensive. Why not buy a Freedom Arms instead? Load those guys to 60K and they don't even blink. Also $2K or more new in box.

Todays metals are much better and due to lowered pressures for most SAAMI specs Factory ammo isn't as high pressure as it once was. Both add to better longevity.

S&W's M-29/629 were given the ENDURANCE package that helped the guns to tolerate a steady diet of magnum loads without excessive end shake or other issues. Yes the older guns were not as tolerant as todays modern Smith DA's are.

If you wish to talk about tolerance to pressure of course a Ruger frame/cylinder will take more abuse than most anyones DA revolver. An apples/oranges comparison though between a DA and a SA revolvers.

[Jitterbug]

A Smith and Wesson 4" 629-6 in a Simply Rugged Pancake works for me, if I could have found a -4 that would have been my first preference.

A 260 grain WFNGC Beartooth bullet at 1200 fps for any possible unpleasant encounters with large critters up to Moose works for me in most of the west.

If Grizz is in the neighborhood then a 280 gr. WFNGC BTB in the 1150 fps range.

It's not the best choice by any means, a hotter/heavier .44/.45 in a stouter gun like a Ruger would be preferable. But unfortunately I don't get to spend as much time in Grizz country as I'd like so the 629 works for most of my usage. For the most part and generally speaking I consider the S&W to be an easier carry and nicer shooter.

If I know for sure I'm going to be in Grizz's neighborhood a rifle/shotgun is going along, but in the long run it still isn't as handy as the 629 that's always attached to my hip.

For around the house where there are lot's of mountain lions and a few black bears I'll generally carry a 10mm Commander because it's an easier carry. A 200 grain WFNGC BTB at 1150 fps should work...

[Lordofbarbeque]

Well, if you are going to bring up the FA or BFR, you are opening a whole new can of worms. We can get the BFR 44 mag or 45colt for around $900.

[FN in MT]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Well, if you are going to bring up the FA or BFR, you are opening a whole new can of worms. We can get the BFR 44 mag or 45colt for around $900.

I was just rambling. The FA's are a whole other world compared to Rugers or Smiths. I took a few elk with a 6" FA several years back with one shot each. My .454 Cassull loads were 325 gr LBT's and FAR from Max. I shot completely through both bulls one at 25-35 yds the other a long 50 yds. Maybe even 75. Really thumps them and you lose very little meat too.

I've also got a 25-7 the newer Smith 5" .45 Colt. I do the 265 gr SWC's in that to 1100 fps and though I've never tried it on anything other than deer...shoots right through them as well.

IMHO a guy does NOT need a lot of velocity with a heavy, large handgun slug for it to work brilliantly on large game. With the 245-260 gr SWC in the .44 mag 950 fps on up to 1100 works fine.

In the Colt and the Casull 265/280 gr up to the 300's SWC's or LBT's do a hell of a job from 950 to 1100 fps.

Then again, I use irons, don't shoot past 60 to 75 yds at MAX. I use a handgun more like a bow than a rifle.

I maintain most guys would do better with a little less recoil and bluster than more.

FN in MT

[Lordofbarbeque]

"I maintain most guys would do better with a little less recoil and bluster than more."

Are you kidding me. Need more bullit!!!!!

But you know, maybe if I could shoot some 475 specials thru my 475 Linebaugh I might hit something beyond 25 feet.

Agreeing with you, I personally feel that the 45 colt /44 mag can handle everything in North America, but then we can't have guys like FA & BFR going out of business.

Especially FA up in your neck of the woods.

[supervel]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Gotta go with Supervel on this one. The facts according to John Linebaugh support the lowly 45colt achieving the same or better Taylor Knockdown rating as 44 mag without having to reach the same pressures ( 32K vs 40K ). It is a great read on Linebaugh's "sixgun" website. I think it is under myths section.

But, you need a real gun to achieve those results, ie, a Ruger BH bisley frame, baby!!

I to use to be a reader of Linebaugh,when he was with Guns and Ammo.He was friends with Elmer Keith before Elmer past away in 1984 to our great loss.To some readers who may not Know Keith was behind the 44 Mag and that Smith and Wesson first produced.He blew up a 45 colt SAA with hot loads,then he went to 44 special for a clynder with more strenght.I still have the GandA magizine where Linebaugh Could get 1" groups at 100 yards with a custom scoped 45 Colt SA. No it was not a Colt firearm,just the caliber and he did use a scope.John Linebaugh should also be given some credit for the 500 S&W also since he also worked qite a bit with the .50's.These two people have done alot of pioneering in the field of revolvers,and alot of people consider Keith a Legend,myself included.You will have to read his works to understand.

[supervel]

Has anyone use a speer 260grJHP in a 45 acp in a 1911.My old Speer book has some loads at over 900fps?

[Lordofbarbeque]

Have read Keith, Cooper and love reading all the material on Linebaugh's site. I just can't justify one of his revolvers. I have a BFR that I got into for $800. I love that gun, even though I have not learned how to hit anything with it.

[budroe]

I have a 4" 629 and a 5 1/2" Ruger Bisley .45 Colt. I bought the 629 in England while living there in the early-mid 90s. Had it fine tuned by an excellent British pistol smith. The Ruger started life with a 7 1/2" barrel. Sent it off to Dave Clements to have the barrel trimmed, an action job and some other work. While he had it he sent the grip frame to SK Custom and had a set of mesquite grips fitted. It will handle heavier loads than I'll ever need to use. Both guns are really nice.

I'd say either job will do the job equally well for you. Go in a gun shop, handle both and see which you prefer the "feel" of best. No matter what, you're not going to make a mistake. One consideration, buying the Ruger would leave you a lot of money for ammo and loading dies (and maybe a nice rig to carry it in).

[supervel]

Originally Posted by supervel

Has anyone use a speer 260grJHP in a 45 acp in a 1911.My old Speer book has some loads at over 900fps?

I have used the old 225gr.JHP's in a 25-2 and 1911,has anyone tried the 260's and do they even still mke them?

[supervel]

Lordofbarbeque Trivia:what was the 9x23 Winchester before it came out.

[TRSOtto]

Originally Posted by supervel

Load a old model 29 hot and see how long it lasts.

If you are going to shoot ALOT (and most folks don't), pay heed. Smith 29's will not take the pounding that a Ruger will. I melted down a brand new Model 29 one summer in less than 500 rounds. A steady diet of mid range 240 gr JHP's and that gun was out of time. Sent it back to S&W and $165 later it was "fixed". Less than 200 rounds later it was doing the same thing.

Dumped the 29 and bought a Redhawk that has had probabloy 10,000 full house 44's thru it.

29's are gorgeous, but if durability is a requirement, buy a Ruger.

[Lordofbarbeque]

Super,
Had to go to the cartridge book for that one and still it did not give the answer, however, next to it the 9x23 steyr is listed. Is that the answer?

[supervel]

Originally Posted by Lordofbarbeque

Super,
Had to go to the cartridge book for that one and still it did not give the answer, however, next to it the 9x23 steyr is listed. Is that the answer?

You were cheating,by looking in the book.9x23 Winchester is a 38 supper minus the rim and a stronger case.In the 1990's Colt and Winchester made some 1911's in this caliber. Their was a lawsuite,I believe,but am not 100% sure of and they quit making them.They were also supplied with 38 Super barrels sometimes,also.Before that Jeff Copper would take 223 Remington cases and cut them back to around 23mm in a custom barrel I believe,and load them hot.The case web of a 223 is rated at 60K or so.The 9x23 Win. is also one of the highest pressure pistol cartridges around.I believe 460 S&W or 500 S&W are the highest rated.ANY WAY HE CALLED IT THE 9MM SUPERCOOPER.