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  #1  
Old 04-06-2012, 11:41 AM
HammerG26 HammerG26 is offline
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Pistol / Caliber Choice




Are there any departments which CHOOSE to use a Glock for SWAT duty based on its quality of a firearm, versus cost? We use Glocks in our department, but I believe that is because the entire department uses Glocks. For example, why would LAPD SWAT choose Kimber TLE over Glock? Or why would other departments choose SA 1911 over Glock (or any other manufacturer)? I know that everyone has an opinion of Glock vs. M&P vs 1911 (then the 1911 people argue which is best) vs. etc...

Just looking for some guidance from those who trust their lives to their firearms DAILY...
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:26 PM
nwhpfan nwhpfan is offline
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Yes, many, many SWAT teams pick the Glock because they believe it is the best pistol for their need; regardless of cost. And there are some where money is the factor. There are agencies that buy Noveske rifles and Glock pistols. Personally I would rather have a top notch rifle and a Glock, XDM, or M&P then a fancy top notch 1911 and a basic rifle.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2012, 09:31 PM
Haydukelives Haydukelives is offline
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Agency firearm/caliber pick is mostly a political thing: politics, people, power, money, egos.

One agency I was with you could carry whatever you liked, as long as it got approved , and of course you qual. with it. Another agency you got to choose the G17 or the G19, no approvals beyond that.

Most LE Admins are not firearms people.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2012, 10:07 PM
ripper20 ripper20 is offline
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I didn't know that there was any caliber other than a .45 or any gun other than a 1911
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  #5  
Old 04-07-2012, 01:23 AM
FrontRangeFuzz FrontRangeFuzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haydukelives View Post
Agency firearm/caliber pick is mostly a political thing: politics, people, power, money, egos.

One agency I was with you could carry whatever you liked, as long as it got approved , and of course you qual. with it. Another agency you got to choose the G17 or the G19, no approvals beyond that.

Most LE Admins are not firearms people.
^^What he said.
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2012, 11:34 AM
HammerG26 HammerG26 is offline
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Our local SO allows officers to carry what they want as long as they qualify with it and as long as it is DAO (hence 1911 not an option). Was just curious what others thought, and other experiences.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:38 PM
FrontRangeFuzz FrontRangeFuzz is offline
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Personally, I think that it's stupid to force an entire agency to carry the same thing. If you want to limit calibers due to ammo logistics and cost then that's one thing, but shooting is a very "individualized" skill, in my experience at least. As a former red shirt, I've found on more than one occasion that certain folks shoot "ok" with one type of gun while they excel with something else. Even with good fundementals, if a gun doesn't comfortably fit your hand then you won't enjoy shooting it, and won't shoot it well. My policy was pretty open with respect to duty weapons. I had caliber restrictions to deal with, but my chief was very lienient with firearms for the most part (probably due to the fact that we didn't issue anything).

I understand if a department buys a brick worth of Glocks to issue out, but if your officers can't shoot well with them, at least give them the option to buy something else to use on duty. Buying something just for the sake of "uniformity" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for the reasons outlined above, but tons of agencies do it. My two pennies.
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  #8  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:46 PM
LW McVay's Avatar
LW McVay LW McVay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
Personally I would rather have a top notch rifle and a Glock, XDM, or M&P then a fancy top notch 1911 and a basic rifle.
I'd rather have a top notch rifle and a top notch 1911.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2012, 04:59 PM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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LE weapon choices

I worked for the largest county LE agency in Florida, which had 1600 sworn officers at the time. The issued firearm was a Glock, but officers had a choice of 9mm, .40S&W, or .45acp. My choice was the G21 since I like the .45acp round. We were required to carry at all times, but even an off duty weapon had to be either safe action trigger or DAO. This effectively eliminated me from ever carrying my personal weapons, which are various 1911 handguns, both single and doublestack....what a bummer!

Large agencies tend to dictate the type of weapon if the agency supplies it, which helps the logistics of ammo, and gun armorers to maintain the weapons.
It is also easier to train the recruits if only one type of gun is authorized.
The larger agencies also have bids for new guns, so they can get a lot of handguns at very reasonable costs.

The Glock is a good weapon, but I still love my 1911's. None of the Glock pistols I have shot from a rest, shoot as good as my personal weapons when it comes to accuracy. Since the 1911 trigger is easier to shoot fast and accurately, I prefer the 1911 for concealed carry since I am no longer in law enforcement.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2012, 06:51 PM
chrysanthemum chrysanthemum is offline
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Not in Law Enforcement myself, but ...

Seems that there are differences in individual preferences AND it cannot be good for a police department to mandate an officer to carry something that doesn't correspond with the officer's preferences (within reason). The 45acp 1911 is time-proven and, accordingly, I feel it should always be considered an "approved" option.

Unfortunately, I guess that politics, etc., often gets in the way of common sense logic.
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  #11  
Old 04-07-2012, 07:36 PM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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Obviously no Glock and I mean NONE of them are chosen because they are the finest available sidearm, some folks might be incorrectly inclined to believe that Glock is better than....(insert name here) but there is no such thing as a mass produced handgun that can come close to the quality of an upper tier 1911 built by a number of custom shops and limited production makers. For the masses a Glock is good enough.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2012, 07:44 PM
Mike 139 Mike 139 is offline
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Back in the late 80's, glock people came to training with IIRC a model 17.

They asked if a confined ,controlled area could be found to drop-test an empty pistol. They dropped the unloaded Glock from a high building into the street, where it was promptly recovered. It was than taken to the indoor dept. range and fired w/o any mal-functions. It was left at the range for several weeks for any Officer to stop by and test-fire. The Agency ordered 1100 pistols with high cap mags...a few years later, when they switched over to the .40, Glock bought back all the pistols and high caps and replaced them with model .22's, same as DOJ issues, some 12,000 agents w/22's or compact 23's..

During the same time period, they also left samples of 21's along with the 17 and 19 with other agencies that did not issue, but required their Officer's to purchase their own...if anyone wanted one, they could order direct and have it sent to the Dept, same as we did with the rifle program from Colt.

It's not about individual preference, but rather reliability, training to a certain level of competence, alot easier for the females to carry and and qual with a Glock, and economics, each costing roughly $300.
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  #13  
Old 04-07-2012, 08:51 PM
FrontRangeFuzz FrontRangeFuzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 139 View Post
It's not about individual preference, but rather reliability, training to a certain level of competence, alot easier for the females to carry and and qual with a Glock, and economics, each costing roughly $300.
This is how admin personnel think who aren't involved in the training side (not a slight against you, Mike - it just is what it is). From a logistics standpoint, that makes alot of sense. From an end-user and training standpoint, it can suck. For officers and instructors alike, it IS about individual preference to a degree, and for good reasons. Even if an agency offers "brand x" as an issued gun, there isn't much harm in allowing an officer the option of purchasing their own gun and associated gear if that's what they are familiar with and shoot well with. Giving officers options is a good thing (within limits, of course...), and I do agree that reliability is a very, very important factor.

"No, the .50AE is not an approved round for duty use, sorry."
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Last edited by FrontRangeFuzz; 04-07-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2012, 02:47 PM
socal carry socal carry is offline
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I work Lapd. SWAT carries 1911's because that's what they want, they carry Kimbers because they made them cool special guns. We have roughly 75 SWAT Officers in a 10,000 officer department. They, rightfully, get all the best toys. They are personally issued kimber tles, hk 416s, and benellis.

The department is in a pilot program to allow highly qualified patrol personel and detectives, to carry 1911s (Springfield, Colt, and Kimbers).

Talking to the fireams personel, it is generally seen that 40 cal striker fired guns (Glock and maybe soon SW MPs soon) are best suited for the masses. 1911's are a little more advanced, and in such a large pool of personel are seen to be more likley to generate "issues" in the hands of non gun nuts. My wife is also an LAPD officer and a perfect example of someone that is better served with a block.

...jus my 2 cents
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2012, 08:02 PM
fadedsun fadedsun is offline
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Our swat guys carry sig 226s in 40 and the rest a mix of glock 34 and 35s. The ones that carry Glocks are doing so by choice and must purchase it on their own.
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:19 PM
Che Che is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper20 View Post
I didn't know that there was any caliber other than a .45 or any gun other than a 1911
ROGER THAT
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:20 PM
Che Che is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal carry View Post
I work Lapd. SWAT carries 1911's because that's what they want, they carry Kimbers because they made them cool special guns. We have roughly 75 SWAT Officers in a 10,000 officer department. They, rightfully, get all the best toys. They are personally issued kimber tles, hk 416s, and benellis.

The department is in a pilot program to allow highly qualified patrol personel and detectives, to carry 1911s (Springfield, Colt, and Kimbers).

Talking to the fireams personel, it is generally seen that 40 cal striker fired guns (Glock and maybe soon SW MPs soon) are best suited for the masses. 1911's are a little more advanced, and in such a large pool of personel are seen to be more likley to generate "issues" in the hands of non gun nuts. My wife is also an LAPD officer and a perfect example of someone that is better served with a block.

...jus my 2 cents

Thanks for the 411. Stay safe
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:35 AM
KenW. KenW. is offline
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We have a new Sheriff who is a 1911 guy. We were authorized 1911s in the former administration, but few of us carried them. When the Boss came out with his they spread like wildfire.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:41 PM
CavCop CavCop is online now
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A local PD buy's Sigs at about $750-800 per gun with well over 100 officers. Nice higher end guns issued to all.

Their SWAT team is issued Glocks.

Why Glocks? Because even at about $350 per gun, they work that much better than the Sigs.

At the range when a Sig jams, it take time to clear and some times a good hard strike to the concrete.

In 10+ years of Law Enforcement, I have seen most places use Glocks with little to no issues. The other brands out there for a few that carry them, they seem to have a lot of issues (I do get to shoot with other agencys for training classes or fun shoots).
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:04 PM
PointMan12 PointMan12 is offline
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My dept. was a "Carry what you want as long as you qualify with it" dept. Until the powers that be decided to issue us weapons. There are many left handed Sig lovers at my dept. but the cost of the Sig vs. Glock turned out to be the deciding factor and now we are stuck with Glock 22's and 22's. However, SWAT is now "Carry your duty Glock or buy your own 1911, we currently have half the team outfitted in the 1911, slowly proding the other guys to see the 1911 light.
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:27 PM
CATATOMIC CATATOMIC is offline
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I'm the chief investigator with the CID division in my department. All patrol officers are issued the HK USP 40. A couple of years ago they started buying and issuing Glock 23's to CID because of the price difference and because I'm a certified Glock armorer. All officers are allowed to carry personally owned weapons as long as you qualify with them. One of the guys in CID with me carries his Colt 1911 about half the time. The department still buys ammo for officers even if's it's not 40 but they don't like it and I look for it to change in the future.
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