Looking for 1st vintage 1911 for investment

[daven59]

I usually start looking at the shooters with what I call history. The expensive ones will have to wait. Of course if I happen to find a collectable one at a can't pass up price (fat chance) I'll jump. It is fun looking though it's like look for treasure. Thankfully I've learned some from that Clawson 3rd edition guide book that hopefully will keep me from getting burned. Knowledge is power.

[TCT1911]

Update...

I decided to go with a Scott Gahimer offered 1916 all correct/ original/very rare Colt 1911. I was told that very few of these exist today in original condition.



and...

a 1968 almost "like new" all original Colt government model 1911.



These are my first purchases into the vintage 1911's investment arena and couldn't be more happy.


Scott has just put for sale a lot of very nice examples located on his site. I recommend checking them out.

[Piexcel]

Originally Posted by TCT1911

I decided to go with a Scott Gahimer offered 1916 all correct/ original/very rare Colt 1911. I was told that very few of these exist today in original condition.

Those pistols you just bought sure are doozies!

Can you post Mr. Gahimer's pics like that on the forum? Reason I ask is because I had my hand slapped for posting some of Mr. Karash's pics when I was making some comparisons, and I had some Gun Test magazine stuff. The administrator told me no copyrighted material allowed and deleted all the pics in both cases.

[TCT1911]

Thanks. I will really enjoy them.

Not sure on your issue with the pics. Because you chose to make an issue of it in my thread; I removed them. I do get a cd with those pics with my purchase. I will post pics of my own when I get them to ease any concern.

[Piexcel]

Originally Posted by TCT1911

Not sure on your issue with the pics. Because you chose to make an issue of it in my thread; I removed them. I do get a cd with those pics with my purchase. I will post pics of my own when I get them to ease any concern.

It's more copyright issues. I guess it's really a non-issue since you now own the pistols!

Anyways, looking forward to seeing the pics you take. I find it more fun taking my own pics and sharing them rather than using somebody else's.

[1saxman]

True, but Scott still owns the pictures. If the new owner wants to take his own pictures, he can do that and show them wherever he wishes.
TCT1911: you chose to take the direct route. You bought guns from a known expert with a great reputation, so you can feel confident in your guns. That cost you some money, but it saved you years of effort in learning what to look for and possibly much more money than you overspent in mistaken purchases. Certainly nothing wrong with that method.

[6285108]

Not for sale, I was once half owner of this beauty....My loot bought me out

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v397/6285108/M1911/

[Piexcel]

Originally Posted by 6285108

Not for sale, I was once half owner of this beauty....My loot bought me out

Wow! Stunning! Where did the pistol go?

[TCT1911]

Another interesting auction that received a lot of attention.

A 1917 that sold for $3,827.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=281884172

[vette]

That auction pistol is a beauty.

I had trouble with the photobucket pistol's pics. Not unusual for photobucket.

On using someone else pictures, I think it is in poor taste to do so without permission and credit to them is also wise. Many forums will have a rule against using someone elses photos without permission.

That said, in most cases it is not a violation of copyright law. The Fair Use Doctrine allows use of pictures, print material, etc. for educational purposes so long as no profit is sought or obtained. That is why a teacher can copy an article for students and give it to them for a class. Credit for the original photographer or owner is a good idea and remember that other law or rules could apply. Not illegal to post pictures, etc. for educational non-profit purposes but many think that it is.

That is why, when I post some information from say Clawson, I say so. Same principle.

I recently noted one of my pictures posted on another forum was an avatar for a member of the forum. No problem as it is more of a compliment than something to get worried about.

[dsk]

Originally Posted by TCT1911

Another interesting auction that received a lot of attention.

A 1917 that sold for $3,827.00

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=281884172

I once had a 1917 that was identical to that one condition-wise. I sold it for $2,000 about 7-8 years ago. What a maroon I was.

[dsk]

Originally Posted by vette

On using someone else pictures, I think it is in poor taste to do so without permission and credit to them is also wise. Many forums will have a rule against using someone elses photos without permission.

That said, in most cases it is not a violation of copyright law. The Fair Use Doctrine allows use of pictures, print material, etc. for educational purposes so long as no profit is sought or obtained.

Actually, intellectual property remains the owner's unless he/she releases it to the public domain. Fair Use still requires giving credit to the owner or original source. The problem is, copyright infringement on the Internet went beyond being uncontrollable a long time ago. Back when I had a USGI pistols website I found my pictures were being copied and used everywhere, and when I tried to put a watermark or copyright notation on them I simply found it Photoshopped out on other sites. Unless you want to hire a lawyer to go after people you pretty much have to keep anything you want to remain under your control off the Internet. I've contributed some images to Wikipedia, and I knew full well there was no way to enforce any copyrights so I simply released them to the public domain.

[CJS57]

Good move DSK! Spread the knowledge if you can!

[vette]

Originally Posted by dsk

Actually, intellectual property remains the owner's unless he/she releases it to the public domain. Fair Use still requires giving credit to the owner or original source. The problem is, copyright infringement on the Internet went beyond being uncontrollable a long time ago. Back when I had a USGI pistols website I found my pictures were being copied and used everywhere, and when I tried to put a watermark or copyright notation on them I simply found it Photoshopped out on other sites. Unless you want to hire a lawyer to go after people you pretty much have to keep anything you want to remain under your control off the Internet. I've contributed some images to Wikipedia, and I knew full well there was no way to enforce any copyrights so I simply released them to the public domain.

I agree. I mentioned giving credit to the owner a couple sentences later. Also, other laws can apply like plagiarism.

I also agree, once you post it, any attempt to stop someone's use will be too expensive and too much hassle to be worth it.

The most tasteful approach is to ask permission, get it and give credit. That keeps everyone happy and still gives access to information.

[TCT1911]

I took delivery today.

Amazing pieces of history. I feel blessed to be able to collect / invest in such things.

I will post additional higher resolution pics and details later for everyone to enjoy.

Anyway, here is the 1916 Colt and the 1968 Colt...all original and correct.

[Piexcel]

Splendid! Those are good pics to start off with too!

[dsk]

The '68 is interesting in that it is one of the ones that Colt apparently used up some surplus stock of military "hard slides" originally meant for the National Match pistols.

[TCT1911]

Originally Posted by dsk

The '68 is interesting in that it is one of the ones that Colt apparently used up some surplus stock of military "hard slides" originally meant for the National Match pistols.

Excellent observation. Scott's data sheet mentioned that very thing.

[lidserra]

I have to say, I started my collecting search at the Rock Island Auction ( http://rockislandauction.com/ ) this year and have learned alot about the process and had a chance to talk to the personnel there outside of the auction itself.

1st, RIAC has two types of auctions "Premier" and "Regional". Premiers are typically all collector grade specimens. Yes they have restored weapons, but they clearly identify them in the catalog listing. They hold two Premiers and three Regionals per year.

The regionals are for shooter/beginning collector weapons. Some are nice pieces, some are really rough. The descriptions on these are not as descriptive as the Premiers, but do specify if it is original or reconditioned.

The Rock Island staff takes in collections and tours the country finding weapons that are a good value, which they buy and then put into the auction. (Yes they make a profit on them, just like any good company should do.) The staff is quite knowledgeable on weapons and spends a lot of time researching what they put up on the block.

For the last auction, since I live a two hour drive away, I was able to schedule a private viewing of 10 different lots I was interested in. When I arrived for my appointment, I was quite surprised. They gave my wife, son and myself a tour of the facility, took us through the receiving, cataloging and grading process, showed us their inventory (they usually have more than 5000 weapons on the property at any given time) and then took us to the viewing hall. Laid out on a 3 x 6 table were the 10 lots I had asked about for my inspection. (FYI they were all 1200 - 4000 estimated weapons so no really outrageous high roller weapons, though they did sell a Singer 1911 for 145,000). There was no problem holding the weapons, examining them and asking questions. It was a great experience. I wound up bidding on 6 of the 10 lots and took home 2 of them. (a restored 1914 Colt M1911 serial # 609xx and a SS Colt Python)

You know, just like a fine classic muscle car, there a few originals out there no one can afford, but there are a lot of great restored ones you can afford. You just have to look at the quality of the restoration.

I would highly recommend RIAC as a great place to look for collectables.

Ordering their Premier catalog is a great resource as it shows you anticipated pricing along with condition and histories to better educate yourself.

As others have said, it is up to you to do the research up front before you get into bidding fever and pay too much.

Just my humble opinion. I'll sit back now and read if I am crazy.

[lidserra]

This is the M1911 I purchased from RIAC in the April Auction. Everyone who sees it is amazed at what a good restoration it is. While not original, it sure makes a 98 year old weapon look good.

[george05]

Originally Posted by lidserra

This is the M1911 I purchased from RIAC in the April Auction. Everyone who sees it is amazed at what a good restoration it is. While not original, it sure makes a 98 year old weapon look good.

is that a turnbull restoration? they do a great job. i have wondered about buying restored guns, just like restored cars that are still worth alot.
none of my business but about how much did that cost you? i have been looking at turnbull restored 1911 for around 3500.00
thx
george

[CIB]

It may be the lighting or my eyes, but the MSH and grip safety appear not to match the frame finish at all? I have several of these and all of mine have matching color parts. Is the front of frame have a lot of bluing loss? I am hoping that the lighting is throwing me off since you bought this as an investment.

[oldcanuck]

Originally Posted by george05

is that a turnbull restoration? they do a great job. i have wondered about buying restored guns, just like restored cars that are still worth alot.
none of my business but about how much did that cost you? i have been looking at turnbull restored 1911 for around 3500.00
thx
george

Vintage guns and cars certainly differ in this regard.

[CIB]

I am no fan of restored guns and also belived the restored cars are highly overrated. Remamber that both are only original once.

[lidserra]

I am not sure who's restoration it is, but for sure they did a quality job. If I knew, I would definitely send another to them. Rock Island did not list who the restorer was. If it was known, they usually do.

I tell you, for the money, $1900 with premium, it was a very nice purchase. I fired it today and she does an old lady proud. Can't wait to get my new Colt so I can fire it and not be tempted to put many more rounds through her. Except maybe for her 100th birthday.

Lid Serra