Petty Theft Becomes Felony Robbery for CCW Permit Holder

[dyobkv]

http://fox8.com/2012/02/23/petty-the...or-ccw-holder/

[PolymerMan]

Well, he won't be CCW anymore.

[220swiftfn]

I believe that I posted something along these lines a little while ago..... There should be a distinction between "having" and "using" at the time of the incident..... Felony jaywalking comes to mind......


Dan

[sechott]

He is a dishonest man, I give him credit for not using his gun to threaten the officer who detained him. However, he was in possession of a gun while committing a crime and should be held more accountable, only the ATF is allowed with such privileges.

[facilitator]

IMHO, his CPL should be revoked permanently. Unfortunately, every once in a while we hear about these completely irresponsible acts committed by supposedly responsible CCW people.

We'll never know, but if he wasn't caught this time, would his confidence have been built? Would he have escalated his crime sprees? Would he eventually have used his carry gun in the commission of a crime?

The Loss Prevention Officer was extremely fortunate that his confrontation with this individual did not take a turn for the worse. I'm glad he wasn't hurt.

[monkey dust]

Yep. He should lose his permit. Period.

But what is the difference in this theft. And this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1299002.html

[BDA45]

Originally Posted by 220swiftfn

I believe that I posted something along these lines a little while ago..... There should be a distinction between "having" and "using" at the time of the incident..... Felony jaywalking comes to mind......

There aren't specific laws for jaywalking while in possession of a weapon - or felony jaywalking. There are laws, however, that specifically differentiate criminal acts as armed or unarmed. Imagine the weakness in the debate of inserting "possession and actual use" instead of just possession. It's as if you can carry during a crime with a choice to illegally use or not use. There could be three layers to the law as well, but that odd choice remains.

Distinction is for bold prosecutors and juries.

[Zedrx]

Got what he deserved. Period. Hope they lock him up.

[BBA]

Originally Posted by monkey dust

Yep. He should lose his permit. Period.

But what is the difference in this theft. And this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1299002.html

The difference: Food is not jewelry from a department store?

[Red Dirt Dave]

Proof that having a CCW permit does not make someone any smarter.

[monkey dust]

Originally Posted by BBA

The difference: Food is not jewelry from a department store?

Theft is theft. The item stolen is not the issue. Theft of a item is. And if carrying a firearm when stealing makes it a felony, then it should be applied to all.

Again. Repeat after me. "Theft is theft". It doesn't matter what you steal. It's still theft. And if a CCW holder is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm. If a cop is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm or wear a badge. Period.


From the article:
"Deer Park police Officer Kevin Yang was charged with misdemeanor theft and suspended for 30 days without pay. Deer Park Police Chief Greg Griggs tells KTRK-TV of Houston that a class C misdemeanor conviction would not keep Yang from returning to duty."

There is a screen grab. The cop was armed when he stole the items. Yet he gets to stay a cop and keep his rights to carry a gun. No added felony.

[sechott]

Sort of conundrum that the officer's crime seems to be less severe but actually thinking about it is much worst, he stole from those who should trust him with their lives.

[220swiftfn]

Originally Posted by monkey dust

Yep. He should lose his permit. Period.

But what is the difference in this theft. And this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1299002.html

So the police officer should be charged with felony theft as well. (He's in uniform, I'm assuming that he has his duty weapon on him as well.....) But he isn't, he's being suspended for 30 days, charged with a misdemeanor, and allowed to return to work where he CARRIES A GUN.


Dan

[220swiftfn]

Originally Posted by BDA45

There aren't specific laws for jaywalking while in possession of a weapon - or felony jaywalking. There are laws, however, that specifically differentiate criminal acts as armed or unarmed. Imagine the weakness in the debate of inserting "possession and actual use" instead of just possession. It's as if you can carry during a crime with a choice to illegally use or not use. There could be three layers to the law as well, but that odd choice remains.

Distinction is for bold prosecutors and juries.

Your last line was my point, where an aggressive prosecutor very well could take the tack of "you broke the law (by jaywalking) and it's a felony count because you were armed at the time" (narrow technical definition if you break ANY law while armed, it's an armed felony) I admit, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but remember, you can be charged (and convicted) with a weapons charge even if you don't have one (bank robbery with a note stating you have a gun, for instance.) BTW, I happen to agree with the sentiment that the guy's an idiot......


Dan

[220swiftfn]

Originally Posted by BBA

The difference: Food is not jewelry from a department store?

But if you stole food from a grocery store you'd be charged the same as the jewelry (given that the worth is still "petty")


Dan

[220swiftfn]

Originally Posted by monkey dust

Theft is theft. The item stolen is not the issue. Theft of a item is. And if carrying a firearm when stealing makes it a felony, then it should be applied to all.

Again. Repeat after me. "Theft is theft". It doesn't matter what you steal. It's still theft. And if a CCW holder is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm. If a cop is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm or wear a badge. Period.


From the article:
"Deer Park police Officer Kevin Yang was charged with misdemeanor theft and suspended for 30 days without pay. Deer Park Police Chief Greg Griggs tells KTRK-TV of Houston that a class C misdemeanor conviction would not keep Yang from returning to duty."

There is a screen grab. The cop was armed when he stole the items. Yet he gets to stay a cop and keep his rights to carry a gun. No added felony.

Aha, couldn't tell the tone from your earlier post.... Something else to consider though, until not too long ago, a convicted murderer could legally buy, own, and carry firearms after their sentence was over......


Dan

[monkey dust]

Originally Posted by 220swiftfn

Aha, couldn't tell the tone from your earlier post.... Something else to consider though, until not too long ago, a convicted murderer could legally buy, own, and carry firearms after their sentence was over......


Dan

Let the cop own a gun, after his sentence is up. But let him no where near a badge. With that lack if integrity, he doesn't need to be a cop. ever. If he will steal from fellow cops. Think what he would do to non badge wearing citizens.

Back to the topic. The CCW holder should lose his permit. Theft is theft. What he did shows a serious lack of judgement.

[WalterGC]

Originally Posted by monkey dust

Theft is theft. The item stolen is not the issue. Theft of a item is. And if carrying a firearm when stealing makes it a felony, then it should be applied to all.

Again. Repeat after me. "Theft is theft". It doesn't matter what you steal. It's still theft. And if a CCW holder is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm. If a cop is a thief, we can't trust him to carry a firearm or wear a badge. Period.


From the article:
"Deer Park police Officer Kevin Yang was charged with misdemeanor theft and suspended for 30 days without pay. Deer Park Police Chief Greg Griggs tells KTRK-TV of Houston that a class C misdemeanor conviction would not keep Yang from returning to duty."

There is a screen grab. The cop was armed when he stole the items. Yet he gets to stay a cop and keep his rights to carry a gun. No added felony.

Big difference here! In this case, they didn't want to alienate the "Yang" community!

[scubie02]

People sometimes do stupid things on the spur of the moment--how many times have we heard of celebrities who shoplift when they clearly do not need to, apparently for the "thrill". While I personally can not see it, I also can not see society shelling out major $ to incarcerate somebody for shoplifting because he happened to have a ccw. Yes, it was stupid, but I think one of the major problems with society these days it turning everything into a "federal case". Give it the Andy Taylor test, would he be locking somebody up for 8 years for shoplifting? Last time I heard some huge percentage of our legislators had worse crimes than that on their sheets and they are making those new harsh laws. The hypocrisy sickens me. Sort of like Ted kennedy passing a law on...pretty much anything.

[master gunner]

Originally Posted by sechott

He is a dishonest man, I give him credit for not using his gun to threaten the officer who detained him. However, he was in possession of a gun while committing a crime and should be held more accountable, only the ATF is allowed with such privileges.

Now that's funny I don't care who you are.

[wlhawk]

You can't fix stupid, but you can limit its application on society for a few years.

[spinks]

Young II knew the rules when he got his CCW. He chose to break the rules so he needs to pay the consequences.

[monkey dust]

Originally Posted by spinks

Young II knew the rules when he got his CCW. He chose to break the rules so he needs to pay the consequences.

the cop new the rules, pretty sure theft was covered at the academy, what does he deserve?

[Brass Tacks]

Lt Tim Allen boosted the charge with more power ARRRRRG

[mgatov]

I agree with the charge being increased. Ignore that he had a CCW for a moment. He committed a criminal act with a deadly weapon in his possession. Who is to say that he wouldn't have pulled it at some point if he felt the need to complete the theft more expeditiously. His willingness to commit a crime certainly doesn't bode well for him respecting boundaries regarding actions.