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  #1  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:12 PM
Army GI Army GI is offline
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Hi Point 45 ACP Carbine Review




The Hi Point 45ACP carbine is a neat concept and sells for a great price, but is disappointing at the range. For $330, you could do much better in terms of performance and accuracy. This review will discuss my opinion on the overall purpose of a pistol caliber semi-auto carbine, original impressions of the rifle, ergonomics, and finally range performance. Unfortunately for the carbine, range performance was not nearly what I had hoped for.

I held off on buying a Hi Point carbine (in 9mm) when they were first introduced when only the 9mm and 40 cal versions were available. The primary reason was I didn't care for the look at the time. The new TS version that is available improves upon the look and functionality of the carbine by redesigning the stock, foregrip, and adding a rail system to the gun. All of these post-design features make it look like, for lack of a better term, black rifle. The aesthetic appeal of the rifle was definitely improved with the new external lines. Yes, they were designed after the fact and look slapped on, and perhaps they were. Thankfully non of that effected the the ergonomics - the feel of the gun compensates for the ugliness 100%.

Actually picking up the rifle was an eye opening experience. Yes, it is heavy, but it balances in the hand so well. I suggest this is because all of the weight in the breech block is centered directly over the pistol grip - your strong hand supports all the weight. I was afraid that the grips would feel like cheese grater hard and sharp plastic grips, but the tactile sensation of the grip felt like soft rubber and was very comfortable. The width felt just right, it almost felt like standard AR handguards. Though the stock looks like some sort of complicated adjustable sniper stock, it is in fact just a simple skeleton stock with a spring-loaded recoil butt-plate. I thought this was a silly idea at first. But it turns out that this shock absorbing action was very welcome in a 45 ACP carbine! The rail system, though it looks like a picatinny rail, is actually made out of a hard polymer which resembled the ubiquitous system. Though it isn't made out of aluminum or steel, it is still very durable and wouldn't hesitate to mount a red dot to it. But even when just using iron sights the gun rises to the shoulder very easily and the check weld feels almost like an AR.

Despite the promising ergonomics and initial impression, the range performance was dismal. The first thing an experienced shooter may notice is the terrible trigger. Compared to a Hi Point Carbine, a Mosin-Nagant trigger might feel like a national match one. The fact that the trigger itself is made out of plastic doesn't really bother me. However there was NO clear point when it would break. The squeeze is akin to the action on a toy cowboy gun (the kind that fired snap caps or made sparks). I think my Stormtrooper blaster from when I was a kid had a better trigger than the Hi Point. Have I made my point? Despite the disappointing initial impression of the trigger, I endeavored to give it a fair chance. Four hours and 250 rounds later, there is no redemption for the Hi Point. The target was a 36" tall steel pepper-popper with an 8" diameter center-of-mass. The distances and shooting positions ranged from 25 yards and off hand to 100 yards from a concrete bench with a solid rest. This is the first firearm I've ever owned where my hit/miss ratio was less than 50%. In fact this is the first time I've ever had to judge accuracy on a hit/miss ratio! I started the day by firing off hand at 50 yards because this is the scenario I envisioned would be the most likely way I'd deploy this type of rifle. After much fudging with the sights and many misses, I decided to move it closer to 35 yards. My hits improved, but I could never get an entire magazine to connect with the target. I would get 5-6 good hits and then drop the rest by a large margin. I finally benched it at 50 and 100 yards to resolve this matter once and for all. The results were interesting. At both ranges, I would often miss the target with an entire magazine of ammunition. Other times, I would again connect with the target with a good 5-6 rounds and then miss by a foot or more with the rest. I blame the trigger 100% for this -- even when I felt I started to get a hang of when it would break. After expending 250 rounds of ammunition and not being able to consistently hit the target from a bench, I packed up and went home. I begun the day knowing that it wasn't going to be a tack driver but should have enough practical accuracy to be worth the $330. Instead I was basically convinced that the Hi Point Carbine couldn't even handle 8MOA, which makes it worthless as a longarm IMHO.

The whole experience was completely unpredictable and frustrating. At the end of the day I threw the Hi Point back into the truck, grabbed my AR15, and proceeded to hammer the 300 yard steel from the prone unsupported position with a canvas sling. I just had to check to make sure I was still alive ji:.

*Only one type of ammo was used, however it was personally reloaded with 230gr LRN bullets. Perhaps it was this which contributed to the performance of the carbine, or lack thereof. However I am not an inexperienced reloader, furthermore even plinking loads should be able to do 4" at 50 yards from a benched longarm.

It is unfortunate that this rifle performed so gruesomely at the range today. I always considered myself a staunch supporter of the utility of pistol caliber carbines. As a history buff, I have my own theory on why they are so useful but that is another article in and of itself. Suffice it to say, the ability to use one type of ammunition for your pistol and rifle, low recoil are two important factors. Most importantly, they are cheap to buy due to the low manufacturing cost of blow-back operated weapons (which are only feasible with pistol cartridges [Think of the MP40, the M3 Grease Gun, the STEN, and the Sterling SMG]). All of these combined makes pistol caliber carbines a useful niche category of weapons. The Hi point carbine had the ability to capitalize on this area of the market. Unfortunately for me, it falls short in an important area.

Perhaps I am being to critical in my judgement of this firearm. However, I will be giving it second chance with factory ammo. Although I doubt it will make that much difference. My only other experience with a pistol caliber carbine was with a Winchester 94AE in .45 Colt. This rifle could shoot inside of 6" at 100 yards with no problem. The .45 Colt cowboy loads and .45 ACP should have similar ballistics from the longer rifle barrels. However, only the Hi Point dropped rounds into the dirt while my Winchester 94 never missed something as easy as a pie plate at 100 yards. I was so impressed with that rifle and wished I never sold it. My experienced with that Winchester colored my expectations for this Hi Point .45 carbine. Sadly, it does not measure up.

-Army GI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rondawg
I understand the sentiment but jeez, it's MEANT to be shot! I doubt you'll "put any more wear on it". I couldn't stand having a Colt that I "couldn't" shoot. That would be like having a show bike you couldn't ride, or a show car you can't drive, or a trophy wife that won't..........cook.
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:43 PM
40 cal 40 cal is offline
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The pistol carbines have their place (SD/HD/SHTF blasting milk jugs) they do not shine at the paper target range. With 9mm & .40 barrels you get magnum power out to 50yrds. With the bigger & slower .45acp barrel performance falls off after 10" You may try some different loads.
They do make a great blaster, maybe hog gun. I do perfer my pistol carbines in .40 or 10mm in an AR platform.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2012, 02:01 PM
herplover herplover is offline
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i love my hi point 9mm carbine.Is it perfect?Heck no but i can buy 3 for the price of a good AR platform(not bashing ARs BTW) and they are very reliable and accurate if kept within the limitations of the round they fire.Cant compare any 9mm carbine out to 100 yards to a rifle chambered in 5.56 NATO/223. That would be like comparing knockdown power of a 5.56 to a 50BMG at 500 yards.
ALso the shorter pistol catridges(9mm,40,45ACP) are not gonna have as big an improvement in a rifle like the longer catridges(357MAG,44MAG) etc because the powder burn rate (read that in a recent shooting times magazine i believe).
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2012, 05:58 PM
BaldEagle323 BaldEagle323 is offline
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I'd be willing to bet that your LRN reloads are your problem. Try it again with FMJ's and let us know...
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:39 AM
Army GI Army GI is offline
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Different ammo is definitely on the list. I've wanted a .45 ACP carbine for so long and now that I finally have it -- I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I just had those extra 45s that I needed to burn up.

However, even if it was the ammo I still think an 8" plate at 50 yards from a benchrest should have been a manageable target.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rondawg
I understand the sentiment but jeez, it's MEANT to be shot! I doubt you'll "put any more wear on it". I couldn't stand having a Colt that I "couldn't" shoot. That would be like having a show bike you couldn't ride, or a show car you can't drive, or a trophy wife that won't..........cook.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2012, 12:37 PM
BaldEagle323 BaldEagle323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army GI View Post
Different ammo is definitely on the list. I've wanted a .45 ACP carbine for so long and now that I finally have it -- I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I just had those extra 45s that I needed to burn up.

However, even if it was the ammo I still think an 8" plate at 50 yards from a benchrest should have been a manageable target.
Yeah, but you were probably exceeding the workable velocity of the
LRN in the longer barrel (than a 1911) and that would cause all kinds of issues with accuracy. Have you checked the bbl for lead buildup?

When I first got my AR, a plate at 50 yards was easy enough to hit, but I was all over the place. I've since gotten much better (ragged hole for 5 shot group). Sounds like you know what you're doing as far as shooting accurately, so I still think some decent FMJ ammo will get you on paper at that distance.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Chuckzul Chuckzul is offline
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I love my .45 Hipoint carbine. It meets all my expectations. It it rugged, cheap, reliable and accurate. Once I sighted in the red dot, I was actually putting multiple shots through the same hole at 10 yards and getting 2" head shot groupings at 25......I consider this more than accurate enough from an inexpensive, pistol caliber carbine. Incidentally, I was using all hand loaded ammo and have not run into one malfunction yet. As with all guns YMMV but most of the time, poor accuracy can be attributed to poor marksmanship or poor ammo.
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2012, 05:53 AM
Ballistic Archer Ballistic Archer is offline
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Its a POS HiPoint pistol jammed into a plastic stock with about 87 screws (exagerated) holding it together......When a carbine cant out shoot a good 1911 or used Smith and Wesson .357mag (at any reasonable distance) its of no value.

If you want to spend $330.00, a used winchester pistol cal lever gun is a much better choice IMO (my wife has a Win94 .357 mag), or a bolt action .22lr or .22 mag that can drill 1MOA groups. Self defense.....a quality 12ga pump gun can be had for less than $330.00.

And as far as it might not be good on the range, but it'll handle SHTF duty, come on, if it cant hit **** calmly sitting at a bench you are really in trouble when folks are shooting back.

I'll take a good AR with an EoTech than effortlessly drops 5 rounds in 1" at 50 yds and 2'" at 100 from the bench, and know that center mass hits will not be a problem when its time to go to work......

Honestly, if I am going to spend $330.00, and cant get a lever gun, I would rather have a Rock Island GI model in any caliber than a HiPoint carbine.....take on anybody who has a AR who knows how how use it with a HP and you will likely be dead in short order.

Despite what rednecks everywhere have talked themselves into, they are better than a sharp stick, and thats about it.

Flame away.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2012, 12:50 PM
scubadad scubadad is offline
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i had the 9mm carbine. out of 2k rounds i only had 1 failure to feed with winchester white box. it would also eat steel cased tula all day long. i sold it to help finance my gunsite rifle. wish i kept it. it was fun and reliable.

they are pistol caliber so you cant expect it to perform like a rifle. are they shtf battle rifles no. i would grab my fal for that. for a fun inexpensive plinker you cant beat them. i had many people at the range turn their nose up to my highpoint. after i let them shoot it they changed their opinion.
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2012, 03:33 PM
reese32309 reese32309 is offline
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Love it

I have the new style 45 acp and 40 s/w hi point carbines. I have noticed trough 450 rounds with each they have a 90% accuracy rate. the first post in this forum was obviously by a guy who never shot a carbine or messed with the sights before shooting it. my 45 with red dot and my 40 the the 4/32 sight were dead on out of the box. so what ever he did to get less than 50% its his fault. I personally own a 45 desert eagle, 45 Hi point, 40 Smith and Wesson, and a 380 rugger for hand guns, for rifles i own a 30-60, 303 AR, 308, and a 22LR. also a AK47 7.62 and AR15 with 5.56/rem .223. So obviously I have my experience and I feel for home protection the 45 acp carbine is just fine, Please have a strap though. If your in the strap and someone tries to talk the gun you can't be shot with it!1111
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  #11  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:47 AM
jupiter7 jupiter7 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reese32309 View Post
I have the new style 45 acp and 40 s/w hi point carbines. I have noticed trough 450 rounds with each they have a 90% accuracy rate. the first post in this forum was obviously by a guy who never shot a carbine or messed with the sights before shooting it. my 45 with red dot and my 40 the the 4/32 sight were dead on out of the box. so what ever he did to get less than 50% its his fault. I personally own a 45 desert eagle, 45 Hi point, 40 Smith and Wesson, and a 380 rugger for hand guns, for rifles i own a 30-60, 303 AR, 308, and a 22LR. also a AK47 7.62 and AR15 with 5.56/rem .223. So obviously I have my experience and I feel for home protection the 45 acp carbine is just fine, Please have a strap though. If your in the strap and someone tries to talk the gun you can't be shot with it!1111
Really?!

Nice first post.... jerk
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2013, 05:53 PM
KrautBurner KrautBurner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagle323 View Post
I'd be willing to bet that your LRN reloads are your problem. Try it again with FMJ's and let us know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army GI View Post
Different ammo is definitely on the list. I've wanted a .45 ACP carbine for so long and now that I finally have it -- I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I just had those extra 45s that I needed to burn up.

However, even if it was the ammo I still think an 8" plate at 50 yards from a benchrest should have been a manageable target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagle323 View Post
Yeah, but you were probably exceeding the workable velocity of the
LRN in the longer barrel (than a 1911) and that would cause all kinds of issues with accuracy. Have you checked the bbl for lead buildup?

When I first got my AR, a plate at 50 yards was easy enough to hit, but I was all over the place. I've since gotten much better (ragged hole for 5 shot group). Sounds like you know what you're doing as far as shooting accurately, so I still think some decent FMJ ammo will get you on paper at that distance.


I think we could really use an update from ARMY GI


I'm seriously looking at replacing my AR with one of these (I barely get any use out of my AR, and it could finance one of these and enough ammo/reloading gear to have ALOT of range time)
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2013, 08:09 PM
WillWork4Guns WillWork4Guns is offline
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I have an ar in .223, ria1911 in 45, and a high point carbine in 45 and love all of them. Each is very different, but all useful. I agree the hp is not a tack driver but at 50 yds off hand with just a red dot I have no problem hitting a 6 in. Target maybe not bullseye but all should hit paper. Definitely more accurate then the 1911 but can't compare to accuracy of an ar. But I also paid under $300 for the hp new and over $1000 for the ar. The hp has never as much as hiccuped with any ammo and it only gets they've cheap stuff mostly steel. It's one of my hd guns and wouldn't hesitate to grab it if needed. To me little money very well spent. Just my 2 cents.
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:18 AM
12Bravo 12Bravo is offline
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I've owned my Hi Point .40 carbine for about 6-7 years now. No it's not match grade accurate, never expected it to be. I will say that it is plenty accurate for it's intended use. I haven't had any issues with mine, feeds, functions, and goes bang every pull of the trigger. I have no reservations about using mine for HD.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2013, 01:18 PM
meanc meanc is offline
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Nm.

Last edited by meanc; 01-30-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:36 PM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Armygi; I think it's the lead. Now you will have to completely remove all lead deposits in the barrel before shooting jacketed bullets. If you don't, you will have another wasted day.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:38 AM
Canfield Canfield is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckzul View Post
I love my .45 Hipoint carbine. It meets all my expectations. It it rugged, cheap, reliable and accurate. Once I sighted in the red dot, I was actually putting multiple shots through the same hole at 10 yards and getting 2" head shot groupings at 25......I consider this more than accurate enough from an inexpensive, pistol caliber carbine. Incidentally, I was using all hand loaded ammo and have not run into one malfunction yet. As with all guns YMMV but most of the time, poor accuracy can be attributed to poor marksmanship or poor ammo.
This is exactly my experience with the 4595, minus the hand-loaded ammo. I've run a variety of whatever I could find for the lowest price through it with no problems.

Also, the trigger mechanism involves a couple of pieces of metal that rub against inside of the frame. Polishing those pieces of metal and that part of the frame will make the trigger smoother, but it will still be heavy.
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  #18  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:42 AM
CODWELL CODWELL is offline
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Hi point carbines

Just purchased my second Hi Point carbine. I bought the 9mm last year and did so with some reservations about how a semi-auto carbine could be sold so cheap. After 500 rounds with no jams and producing silver dollar sized patterns at 25 yards with a Red Dot I was sold on the quality and functionality of this rifle.

Due to my positive experience with the 9mm I recently bought the 45 cal version. Went to range with friend last week who just bought a Sig AR10 308 cal. To make a long story short, my Hi Point was producing silver dollar size pattern at 25 yards after 6 rounds to adjust the Red Dot. His Sig ? It jammed after nearly every shot until it jammed with bolt closed and wouldn't open. Had to disassemble the Sig to clear it. But we both had a great time shooting my Hi Point !

Moral of story ? The Hi Point is a close-in use Carbine. It is not a sniper platform nor a long range platform. It is very fun to shoot, very reliable, and the pleasure/function quotient for dollars spent is superior to just about anything else you might try.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:37 AM
railroadman railroadman is offline
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I just got my HI Point 45acp carbine.I like it.no jam,s FMJ 230&200 bullets It will be my House Gun,and My Wife shot it well.
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