Best .22 Target Pistol

[BillD]

The Marvel metal mags can supposedly be tuned back to original specs.

Not by me, but it supposedly can be done. I'm gonna have my smith take a look.

I bought my mags used.

[Horoscope Fish]

Originally Posted by northman

... The S&W 41 seem to be popular at the matches.

There's a reason for that. Just get one. It's the .22 semi-auto all the Ruger's and Browning's and what not are leading up to. Cut out the "middle man" and be done with it. You'll be glad you did.

[al45]

Just my opinion based on personal experience. I have 4-Ruger MK II's, 4-High Standard Citations, and a Marvel Unit 1 set up for Bullseye, mostly with Ultra Dots but a few with open sights for International shooting. I am into the second hundred thousand rounds with this stable of 22's. I have also tried a friends S&W 41 but found it wasn't for me.

With the exception of the international shooting at Sectionals (The Hi Standard Citation gets the nod then) I shoot the Ruger MKII's. I find the overall score is always 5-7 points higher with the Ruger than either the HS's or Marvel. The HS's give me a higher x count but a lower overall score. A well delivered shot with the Citations are a solid 10, but the wild shots are always 2-3 scoring rings further out than the the same felt shot with the Ruger. I love the triggers and the general feel much better on the Citations but I shoot the Rugers better. I no longer try to analyze why, I just accept it and shoot for the highest score with whatever x count I wind up with.

I have Ransom tested 7-8 Ruger MKII's and have yet to find one that won't shoot 1 1/2-1 3/4" @ 50 yards with a variety of good ammo. If yours isn't shooting that well its an anomaly, or I would try a different ammo. I didn't catch if you have replaced the sear. If you haven't, that's step one. Step two would be to put on a 1" Ultra Dot. My eye's are getting worse every year and dots are a real blessing to aging eye's.

Step three, if you want a 41, buy it. They have proven themselves on the line for decades and as long as you like it, everyone else's opinion really doesn't matter.

FWIW

[northman]

I shot .22 pistol back when I was in the Nat'l Guard 25 years ago. I had a Ruger Mrk II Target and shot very well. My unit had S&W 41s and various Hi Standard pistols available but I stuck with my Ruger. I was surprize that my Mrk III didn't shoot as well. A few guys have told me that the Mrk I and II do shoot better out of the box, and if I decide to do a trigger job consider a used Mrk II to do it on. Surprisely out of 40 shooters I'm the only one with a Mrk III, although there are several Mrk IIs.
I'm serious about buying a 41, The magazine problems,which I have heard elsewhere, on the Marvel units are worrisome. One thing about the Rugers is that they are reliable and their mags are inexpensive.
Thanks for input!

[al45]

northman,
All my Rugers are MKII's, so I can't speak for the MKIII. I do know the III is not as easy to get a good Bullseye trigger as the II is.

I've been very fortunate with my Marvel unit. I've been using Colt Ace mags without any feeding problems. I have noticed the Marvel is more selective with ammo than either the Rugers or Citations. If it isn't on the top end of standard velocity, it doesn't want to run. It does cut a ragged hole at 50' with any good stnd velocity ammo. I just don't shoot it as well as my Rugers, and for me that's the deciding factor.

[Lovemea1911]

Originally Posted by northman

Thanks for the info. I was thinking of a S&W 41, but I'm also considering one of the Marvel units. My Mrk III Hunter off a rest only gets about a 2 inch group at 25 yds with somewhat frequent flyers that open up the group considerably. I've tried various brands of ammo with the old Western white box standard velocity doing the best, but they don't feed as reliabily. My old Mrk II with open sights used to get about an inch group and it seemed to do it with just about any brand of ammo I would put throught it. Of course my old eyes were better 20 years ago. I can shoot better with any of my fellow shooter's pistols, hell my old Ruger Single Six even with that long heavy hammer fall shoots better than the Mrk III .

If I may, what kind of rest and ammo are you using? That pistol is capable of sub 1" groups at 25 yds with match ammo (Wolf, for instance). We just set up a MKIII and a Buckmark at 50 yds with CCI standard velocity and was getting under 2" with both of them. If you are using your finger on the MK III, and the trigger is anything but perfect, it could explain why your groups are a little big. I use a hydrolic trigger puller on an ammo rest (both of my own design, BTW) and it tells the tale. The trigger puller actually hooks to the pistol in a way that there is absolutely no movement from the plane to the gun. It is a great way to test ammo.

[lorene]

I shot bullseye for 52 years best score 2644, in 22 I used most of time highstandard. But T.D. Smith shot the 1st 300 in the 22 NMC. with a long barrel S&W. ( need info on John Giles gumsmith ) I shot with him & Sonny Capone on the Flordia State Team at Camp Perry in '58. Ken C

[NDL]

I have a Marvel Unit 1 and a S&W 41 - and both are great - and both are different. If cost is a factor, I would recommend saving for the M41. A picture of mine is attached.

[paw080]

Hi everyone that has a Marvel rimfire conversion; I have a question. Did most
of you use a dedicated frame, that is not the one you use for 45 competition?
The way I see it, if you use one frame and swap the conversion/slide; then
you are competing in 22rf with a 3.5lb trigger. This would mean that the best
course is to use a dedicated frame that has the trigger components modified
for the 2lb rimfire trigger pull minimum. Is this true? I'm just wanting to tally
the total cost of a conversion, before I leap in the Marvel direction.
Thanks for your response.

Tony

[GOVTMODEL]

I have a dedicated frame for my Marvel .22.

[al45]

I have used mine on a Springfield, Essex, Colt, and Citadel (where is currently resides) frames. It worked on all 4. All triggers have been worked on and have a minimum of 3.5-4.25# weight of pull.

If your trigger is smooth, the 3.5# is not a detriment to accuracy. You need to have enough weight to the trigger to allow you to steer the pistol without worrying about it going off. Triggers that are too light tend to encourage snatching at the trigger when the sights appear to be aligned.

[JimPGov]

Here is what i have found out for me.

I started out using the same frame as my wadgun. I feel that is the best way for a beginner. I now have a dedicated rock river frame for my marvel upper.

This is information on how it applied to a full 2700 match.

When i first had the marvel on it's own frame i was running a 2.5lb trigger . My 22 scores were better, but it affected my centerfire score. Meaning my centerfire scores were lower than my .22 scores. But my .45 score would than be back on par (average). I found that the transition form the light trigger to the heavier my first slow fire scores suffered, thus bringing down the score of my 900.

I felt more comfortable with the heavier trigger. So i raised the trigger weight on the marvel .22 to match the weight of the .45.

My results were that .22 score ( with the heavier trigger) were a bit lower than with the lighter trigger. But there was not the drop in the centerfire portion. My overall score of the 2700 was higher with the heavier trigger in the .22.

At the end of a 2700 when i would remove the target centers i found that i had shot the .22 and .45 just about exactly the same. My fliers were the same distance out and generally in the same areas regardless of caliber. I firmly feel that the better .45 score came from the larger holes, not that i shot the .45 better.

Jim p
p.s. This also made my hardball scores jump. Jp

are

[flyinrock]

Originally Posted by lorene

I shot bullseye for 52 years best score 2644, in 22 I used most of time highstandard. But T.D. Smith shot the 1st 300 in the 22 NMC. with a long barrel S&W. ( need info on John Giles gumsmith ) I shot with him & Sonny Capone on the Flordia State Team at Camp Perry in '58. Ken C

Welcome aboard! I've seen a number of 2600 club shooters on here and wonder just how many are in it and how many Distinguished Pistol shooters are with us? At least two National Champions (pistol) are regulars.
I also used High Standards for most of my competition shooting and tried just about everything available up to and including Hammerli's.
Semper Fi
Rocky
Distinguished Pistol. Prez 100, 2600 club

[lowballer]

keep that 45 grip

http://www.OregonPrecisionArms.com

[2961146]

I see absolutely no mention of Colt Match Target 3rd generation?! Will these shoot and compete or not? Thanks, Tom

[Tom Freeman]

Originally Posted by 2961146

I see absolutely no mention of Colt Match Target 3rd generation?! Will these shoot and compete or not? Thanks, Tom

As in a Woodsman? I have not heard of many/any in the winners circle.

[smallie9]

I personally do not use a .22 in my bullseye league (sorry the .45 does it for me) but the majority do. The most common weapon of choice is the Model 41, second only to the few usind a Ruger of some sort, and a couple of guys have Hi-Standards, and one with a fine old Colt Woodsman. One overwhelming theme has been complaints from the 41 users, with feeding and jam issues, some have sought private smiths for remedies and others have sent them back to Smith for correction (do not expect a quick turnaround). I know they are a fine pistol, but I see too many issues on the new ones for comfort. The only "Distinquished Expert" in my league is shooting a Ruger for what is worth. I guess my point is, pick one you like and can afford, and become proficient with it.

[Jerry Keefer]

The little .22 is a fasinating study.. I see mention in this thread of 25 yard groups, but if winning is your ultimate goal, 50 yard groups appraoching 1/2 inch are desirable. The only American made pistol that is truly match grade is the older High Standards. The S&W 41 is a fine bullseye pistol, but requires some tuning and a barrel change. Barrels are usually too tight, and of poor quality. Hammerli, Pardini, & FW's will produce winning preformance right out of the box..Hammerli's are becoming very difficult to find. I really like the Pardini.. Most of the Pardinis I have tested will shoot between 3/4 to 1/2 inch right out of the box with Eley Red..
The Marvels are excellent conversions, especially the later model 3/32 thick extractor with angle cam out feature. Marvels come with premium quality barrels. Dedicated frames are much preferred, as the quality of the frame has a large influence on functional reliability.
I have done 100s of Rugers for entry level shooters.. Those shooters eventually move on to match grade pistols. I will not work on MKIIIs.. Waste of time..
Jerry

[BillD]

Excellent info Jerry!

I've got a mid 70's 41 with 10 mags and an older Marvel #1 conversion with 13 mags. However, I can only get 10 of those mags to run. I'm not much of a tinkerer but I understand the mag lips can be adjusted.
I switched the Marvel unit from a Norinco I've had for years to an STI frame with a 2# trigger and the reliability increased dramatically. I was thinking about selling the Marvel when I got the 41 but then I switched frames and decided it was a keeper.