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  #1  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:22 PM
EOrion84 EOrion84 is offline
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45 acp - roll vs taper crimp..




The dies I have only allow for roll crimp, which I don't use any of on my 45 reloads (just started, and haven't shot this test batch of 50 yet). I just take out the very small bell that I use to help seat the bullets.

Is it suggested that I purchase a 4th die and add a taper crimp, or should I be ok with crimp at all, like I have been doing with my 9mm's?
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:29 PM
fishpicker fishpicker is offline
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I'd buy a Lee factory Crimp Die.
You definately want a crimp on 45 ACP.
They use to be around 20 bucks but that was 10-12 years ago so don't know what they go for now but definately worthn it.
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:30 PM
skipsan skipsan is offline
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The intent of the taper crimp is only to take out the bell in the case, making the case a straight cylinder. The dimension of the crimped cartridge at the very top of the case should be 0.473 to 0.469" I guess how you get there is irrelevant, but I believe a purpose-built taper crimp die is the easiest to use to get repeatable results. A cartridge case gage (Dillon for about $12) is an easy way to check your process.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:33 PM
iGun iGun is offline
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^^^this
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:47 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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As mentioned above, a cartridge case gauge is a good idea. As is having your barrel, out of the gun, beside you. The problem I had with trying to use a roll crimp to "just take the bell out", and seat and crimp lead bullets at the same station with 45 acp is that they wouldn't chamber consistently. I could do it with 9mm. If yours chamber, congrats.

By the way, Hornady has now introduced 3 die sets with a taper crimp for 45acp and 9mm. I contacted them and they said you couldn't just drop in the crimp sleeve to your existing die. They acted like the engineering was too difficult, and the internals of the old and new die were too different to make them compatible. Sorry, don't buy it...

I use Lee Carbide Factory Crimp by the way. Great die for a great price.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:15 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Are you certain you seating die isn't taper crimp?
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:28 PM
EOrion84 EOrion84 is offline
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Thank you all for getting back to me

Well, I haven't had a single feed/ejection error/jam with my 9mm's, and I am using the same style horandy die sets, with the roll crimp.

Here is the 45 ACP Die Set.

I was thinking the same would be true for these 45 acp's. I slid them into my barrel and they fell out just as easy, which is what I had done with my 9mm's too. I pulled a few of the bullets when first setting the dies, to look for stress/changes to the bullet's jacket, and adjust my crimp until I saw none.

Additionally I used my calipers to test the size of the bullet's diameter, once seated, and it was the same as if the bullet had just gone through the resizing/depriming die. I use VERY little bell to seat the bullet, and barley roll it out with the roll crimp. Yet, there does seem to be a buldge in the case's wall, where the bottom of the bullet is. Still, it slides into the barrel fine. I can't feel the bulge with my fingers, but I seem to see it...

What I am mainly worried about in the crimp is the bullet getting pushed farther down into the casing during feeding. Or, going too hard with the crimp and breaking through, or indenting, the jacket.

I am waiting on parts from S&W before I can put my 1911 back together and test these rounds. So, I figured I would get all your opinions on them in the mean time.
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:41 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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Sounds like you're being adequately careful! I did have more variation in seating depths when I was seating and crimping at the same station with the hornady die. It was at times up to .012 with lead bullets. Now it's like .003 with seperate stations.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:48 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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I suspect Midway's catalog is a misprint.
Before you spend any money,
Call hornady for more info.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2011, 06:06 PM
Griz44 Griz44 is offline
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I really hate the term taper crimp. The goal is to have a perfectly straight wall, not tapered or crimped or belled, just straight....
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:20 PM
SteedGun SteedGun is offline
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Whatever you call it, it works great. I use a Redding taper crimp die in my Dillon press and taper to .468 in 45. I got the number from a Patrick Sweeney book on the 45 and it works great.

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  #12  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:35 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
I suspect Midway's catalog is a misprint.
Before you spend any money,
Call hornady for more info.
Nope. Up until the last month or so Hornady's 9mm and 45 acp were in fact roll crimps. The instructions that came with them even said so. As I stated in my post, I contacted them when the new taper crimp 9 and 45 came out. It's amazing, but it's true. If you order one today, you have to make sure you're getting one of the new taper crimp models. If you're not careful you could easily end up with a roll crimp die.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:45 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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That's good to know cobrabubbles. Many thanks.

It probably explains about a dozen threads from the last few years, people who had trouble getting a crimp and had to buy a new crimp die. If they had Hornady roll-crimp die set, that was their problem.

I wonder why Hornady would supply roll crimp die for 9mm Luger and 45 acp.
Anyone know? Those cartidges can be used in revolver, but probably only 1% of reloads go that way.
Or maybe there's a better reason.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:47 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Best crimp dies I've ever encountered...

Redding Profile Crimp Die.

Dang well worth twice it's cost. At least twice.

Lee FCD is also a good die. The others offer good dedicated dies also.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2011, 08:48 PM
BYJO4 BYJO4 is offline
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Most reloaders that I know prefer to seat the bullet and crimp in 2 separate steps when loading for semi autos. Unless you want to adjust the seat/crimp die between steps, you end up buying an extra crimp die which you would get in a taper style.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2011, 11:05 PM
TheTinMan TheTinMan is offline
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+1 on crimping in a separate step from seating the bullet. It's just better not to have the bullet moving as you're doing the crimp, especially with a roll crimp IMHO.

I love Redding's Profile Crimp die, but it performs a combined taper/roll crimp according to the Redding website:
http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...ile-crimp-dies

I use Redding's Taper Crimp die for .45 ACP.

Quote:
I wonder why Hornady would supply roll crimp die for 9mm Luger and 45 acp.
Anyone know? Those cartidges can be used in revolver, but probably only 1% of reloads go that way.
Or maybe there's a better reason.
A Hornady tech told me a couple of years ago that they simply hadn't figured out how to incorporate a taper crimp into their design with the floating seating stem (which I really like too). Apparently someone finally figured it out!
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2011, 12:24 AM
Highgear Highgear is offline
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I was having feeding problems in my newest Wilson until I purchased a factory crimp die. .475 Was the best I could get with the taper crimp die, and .469 with factory crimp, which made all the difference. Best $20 spent, and since I had the extra station in my progressive just begging for a die it makes for no extra effort.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:19 AM
bsmotril bsmotril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
I suspect Midway's catalog is a misprint.
Before you spend any money,
Call hornady for more info.
Self Edit - removed response, duplicate information

Last edited by bsmotril; 10-18-2011 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Bad information
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:38 AM
1saxman 1saxman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOrion84 View Post
Thank you all for getting back to me

Well, I haven't had a single feed/ejection error/jam with my 9mm's, and I am using the same style horandy die sets, with the roll crimp.

Here is the 45 ACP Die Set.

I was thinking the same would be true for these 45 acp's. I slid them into my barrel and they fell out just as easy, which is what I had done with my 9mm's too. I pulled a few of the bullets when first setting the dies, to look for stress/changes to the bullet's jacket, and adjust my crimp until I saw none.

Additionally I used my calipers to test the size of the bullet's diameter, once seated, and it was the same as if the bullet had just gone through the resizing/depriming die. I use VERY little bell to seat the bullet, and barley roll it out with the roll crimp. Yet, there does seem to be a buldge in the case's wall, where the bottom of the bullet is. Still, it slides into the barrel fine. I can't feel the bulge with my fingers, but I seem to see it...

What I am mainly worried about in the crimp is the bullet getting pushed farther down into the casing during feeding. Or, going too hard with the crimp and breaking through, or indenting, the jacket.

I am waiting on parts from S&W before I can put my 1911 back together and test these rounds. So, I figured I would get all your opinions on them in the mean time.
Very legitimate concern, which is probably why the original .45ACP had a crimp behind the bullet. The bulge behind the bullet is what's holding it in place when loading, on modern cartridges without that mid-crimp. Since the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth, you don't want that crimped/tapered. The case might slip too far into the barrel.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:58 AM
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Rifter Rifter is offline
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You can get a case canneluring tool from Corbin Mfg., at this address:

http://www.corbins.com/hct-1.htm.

Applying a cannelure with this tool should prevent any bullet setback you are likely to encounter in a pistol.
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  #21  
Old 10-18-2011, 11:27 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter View Post
You can get a case canneluring tool from Corbin Mfg., at this address:

http://www.corbins.com/hct-1.htm.

Applying a cannelure with this tool should prevent any bullet setback you are likely to encounter in a pistol.
I use a Corbin canneluring tool when reloading handgun bottlenecks; however, canneluring .45ACP cases seems like a total waste of time.
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  #22  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:36 PM
rocco123 rocco123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
Redding Profile Crimp Die.

Dang well worth twice it's cost. At least twice.

Lee FCD is also a good die. The others offer good dedicated dies also.
Granted I have never used the profile crimp die, but why does it say this on the page for it?

"These dies are not for cartridges that headspace on the case mouth. "

The regular caper crimp die from Redding works well. I would not recommend the Lee FCD for lead bullets.
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  #23  
Old 10-18-2011, 08:54 PM
zmmnm3 zmmnm3 is offline
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Definitely not a good idea to use a roll crimp on a 45acp since the case seats on the case mouth. If there is a roll then the case may go too deep into the barrel.

I use the lee final case sizing die for both 9mm and 45 app and the rounds work flawlessly in multiple brands of pistols.

As stated, I also seat in one step and final case size in the next.
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  #24  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:47 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocco123 View Post
I would not recommend the Lee FCD for lead bullets.
I use the carbide Lee FCD for all my 45 acp needs with perfect results. Why do you suggest it's a bad idea. Not challenging. I'm always open to learning something new.
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  #25  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:52 PM
cobrabubbles cobrabubbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmmnm3 View Post
Definitely not a good idea to use a roll crimp on a 45acp since the case seats on the case mouth. If there is a roll then the case may go too deep into the barrel.

I use the lee final case sizing die for both 9mm and 45 app and the rounds work flawlessly in multiple brands of pistols.

As stated, I also seat in one step and final case size in the next.
I have used the hornady 9 and 45 acp roll crimp seating/crimp dies. As long as you can get the crimp you need before the "rolling" portion of the crimp sleeve hits the brass you're fine. It takes the bell out of your case. It's pretty clear if you have it adjusted to where you're rolling. My problem with it was I couldn't get it get it to work with .452 lead bullets. JHP and even plated .451 I could get it done. But after getting the powder through expanding setup I cleared out a spot and happily use a dedicated crimp die.
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