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  #1  
Old 09-10-2011, 10:51 PM
ACRhino ACRhino is offline
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What are causes of stove pipe?




My 1911A1 seems to want to stove pipe every so many rounds ... I searched but got a ton of junk here on it ... any one have a straight answer on common stove pipe causes with a 1911A1?
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2011, 11:20 PM
kfog kfog is offline
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IIR the cause is the slide cycling faster than the spent round can eject the chamber.

My thoughts would go towards, ammunition not producing enough rearward force to fully cycle the slide or your recoil spring is heavy making the slide return to battery faster.


I'm not a gunsmith, nor a 1911 expert. I could be wrong...
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  #3  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:03 AM
redcliff redcliff is offline
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You might find this information from Bill Wilson helpful: http://www.m1911.org/technic5.htm
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  #4  
Old 09-11-2011, 09:40 AM
Alland Alland is offline
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A loose or clocking extractor.
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  #5  
Old 09-11-2011, 09:43 AM
58 Driver 58 Driver is offline
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May not be a mechanical problem at all, especially since the OP said it only happens occasionally. You may want to assess your grip, you may not realize it but it may "degrade" after a few shots and could very easily cause a stove pipe.

Easier, and cheaper, to look at shooting fundamentals rather than gunsmith issues.
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2011, 01:06 PM
EMorr EMorr is offline
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ACRhino, what is your experience level with shooting in general and with shooting your 1911? Certainly ammunition and mechanical factors can have an impact on this type of malfunction but without knowing all of the technical specs of your pistol and the ammo you are using it is difficult to say. Read that a recoil spring that is too heavy or ammo that is under powered could potentially cause your gun to jam. Likewise an extractor claw pulling off of the rim of the case or a short or broken ejector could also cause the jams. Any of these things that I have mentioned could be contributing to the problem but the best way to be sure is to have someone with experience firing a 1911 such as a range master, friend or relative fire the pistol to see if they can duplicate the jamming problem. If they cannot then it is most likely that you need to adjust your grip when firing, if they can duplicate the jam then you can start trouble shooting the mechanical problem. Good luck and stay safe out there.
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  #7  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:25 PM
rex rex is offline
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My initial thought is once in a while you relax your grip since it happens only occasionally.Pull your extractor and make sure the tunnel is clean because gunk buildup can put extra pressure on it but I'd think you'd have a feed problem pop in too.Then check it for clocking and tension.A short ejector and tall ejection port can help cause it due to grip inconsistancy too.
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  #8  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:50 PM
skylerbone skylerbone is offline
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AC, can you tell us a bit more about the pistol, age, round count, make and model, recoil spring weight and round count? Did you change anything recently? Do you clean regularly? What ammo?

The problem with a diagnosis is there are multiple reasons but the main ones have been mentioned. You might start with a detail strip, cleaning, testing the extractor tension and a look at the FPS fit.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2011, 09:56 AM
ACRhino ACRhino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58 Driver View Post
May not be a mechanical problem at all, especially since the OP said it only happens occasionally. You may want to assess your grip, you may not realize it but it may "degrade" after a few shots and could very easily cause a stove pipe.

Easier, and cheaper, to look at shooting fundamentals rather than gunsmith issues.
That is interesting ... how does a grip cause a stovepipe? Any links or other info on this?
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2011, 10:13 AM
ACRhino ACRhino is offline
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Ok, let me try to answer a few questions so you can help with my question.

It is an Auto-Ordinance 1911A1 GI. I believe it was made in 2009, I bought it on consignment. It looks like the original owner tried to put in new sights and dicked them up so when I got it I put in new front and fear night sights, that is the only work that has been done to it. It has one original 7 round mag, I bought 2 older colt 7 round mags, and one 8 round sig sauer (which i don't really like or trust). I have methodically cleaned the weapon and from what I can tell and from all the specs it looks good. I have been firing UMC rounds lately because I got a bunch on sale at a sporting goods store. Overall I have probably fired 1000 rounds through it, almost all 235gr FMJ. I have fired about 100 different HMJ through it and didn't have an issue. I don't know the spring weight but I assume its stock, it looks stock, all the internal parts do. The barrel looks great, the feed ramp is smooth and clean, the mags are all cleaned and feel good, and it passes all the safety tests (grip, half cock, return to battery with round in chamber, all the safety tests and things to look for I found in the 1911 FAQ, etc).

The only thing mechanical I might think it is would be the extractor being a little off. I will look into that. But I really am curious now how a grip on a weapon can cause a stovepipe. I'm nowhere near an expert on shooting that I can say I'm so good this can't be it. It very well might be so I would like to learn more about that if anyone here can help out.

Thanks again guys.

Last edited by ACRhino; 09-12-2011 at 10:15 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2011, 10:43 AM
sevenL4 sevenL4 is offline
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The extractor, IMHO, is the most likely suspect. Check for 'clocking', a properly shaped hook and proper tension. Next would be the ejector..shape and length are important. As to the recoil spring, 16.5 to 18.0 pound spring ought to work just fine. For safety's sake change the firing pin spring when you change the recoil spring. Not knowing the weight of your recoil spring is like driving your car without checking tire pressure. Unless you have a spring gauge, toss the old springs so they won't be used by mistake. As to the limp wrist/improper grip theory...I did my own unscientific experiment years ago. Even with light loads, I think they were 155 gr. lead loaded for steel challenge, my pistol functioned regardless of my weak hand, limp wrist attempts to cause a jam. As I said, not scientific.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2011, 11:16 AM
rex rex is offline
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Where a limp hold comes in is with a spring on the heavy side for the load.The slide is trying to go back all the way but the frame gives from the weak grip and it can shortstroke.Normally it isn't a concern but I have had and seen it happen before.Normally it's associated with the extractor and ejector but not always.Extractor shape,tension and clocking are the first checks.If it only happens on occasion there's a good chance there's more to it.If you retension the extractor and it doesn't hold for long,replace it and fit an oversized FP stop.
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2011, 01:11 PM
7-19-11 7-19-11 is offline
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What's the cause of scratched slide?

Deleted. Posted in wrong place.
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2011, 02:47 PM
ACRhino ACRhino is offline
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Ok, so I was doing some online trouble shooting and watching some videos on extractors and one thing that they kept saying kind of hit home. They mentioned stovepipes with you have a loose ejector, but they also mentioned having shells hit you in the head. Well I have shells pop straight up and down a lot and bop me on the noggen or shoulder so I'm definitely going to try adjusting it a smidge.

Taking the ejector out on a 1911 looks pretty easy, is it any different to take the firing pin out with the firing pin safety on a 1911a1 with the firing pin safety? I've not found any vids or walkthroughs of that.
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  #15  
Old 09-12-2011, 03:05 PM
skylerbone skylerbone is offline
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Extractor, not ejector. Remove the slide and slip a dummy round up there to test. It should hold it in place but without having to jam it in.

The other thing about your A.O. is that it likely has a GI style ejection port which pops spent casings upward and backward due to its shape.
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  #16  
Old 09-12-2011, 03:39 PM
ACRhino ACRhino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylerbone View Post
Extractor, not ejector. Remove the slide and slip a dummy round up there to test. It should hold it in place but without having to jam it in.

The other thing about your A.O. is that it likely has a GI style ejection port which pops spent casings upward and backward due to its shape.
Ya I'm going to test out the extractor ... sorry I called it an ejector before ... with a snap cap and an empty brass tonight first. If it is loose ... on a series 80, to remove the firing pin I press down on the safety block then remove the firing pin, little back plate and spring as normal. Do I need to do anything to the firing pin block to take out the ejector? I haven't found any videos or anything on a series 80 firing pin block ... its odd, only for a kimber and that one works different.

Does the firing pin block just fall out once the firing pin is removed?
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2011, 09:17 PM
58 Driver 58 Driver is offline
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From Wikipedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACRhino View Post
That is interesting ... how does a grip cause a stovepipe? Any links or other info on this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limp_wristing

Thought this was understood in shooting fundamentals but maybe if you read it you will have a better understanding.

Good luck.
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2011, 11:07 PM
theskunk theskunk is offline
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If the extractor doesn't hold the shell in place until it hits the ejector. Next check ejector. Then the breech face. Next the limp wrist.

Ok, maybe the recoil spring is too stiff. Then try hotter ammo. And clean and lube the gun.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2011, 04:33 PM
ssn vet ssn vet is offline
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What is the place of manufacture engraved into the side of the frame?

Back when Numrich owned the Auto Ordinance name, they put out some real junk.... (don't ask me how I know )

When Kahr bought the Thompson company, they got the rights to the Auto Ordinance brand and started making 1911s. These are all made in Massachusettes (Worcester if I have it right) and will say so on the frame.

If it's doesn't say MA, you actually have an older Numrich made gun in New York.
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