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  #1  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:23 AM
Mike Grasso Mike Grasso is offline
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Question about trigger reset spring




Now that the mag safety has been removed it seems that the trigger return is a bit off, sluggish. I've read about a "two" coil system? What are the opinions / advice on beefing that spring up and what is it's part# / where to buy? Any other springs that need to be replaced, I'm hesitant because the weapon is functioning flawlessly.

Mike

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  #2  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:10 PM
Burgs Burgs is offline
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Milke,

I believe Brownells and/or Midway sells them. Probably Browning too.

For whatever reason, the original 2 coil version of the trigger return spring, that came standard in the older pre-MKII HPs is stronger than the newer 3 coil trigger springs. It is counter intuitive but there you have it.
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:24 PM
wags wags is offline
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Mike, If your firearm is running 100% I wouldn't be concerned if I have the 2 or 3 coil trigger reset spring. I know, we can't leave things alone. Read Wolff Springs link concerning the difference. If you think your trigger is sluggish then try the 2 coil. I'm confident you'll still run 100% reliable.

I have many pre-MKIII Browning Hi-Powers that have over the years gone to Novaks for Spec Op Packages and trigger jobs. All come back with 3 coil trigger springs and run 100% reliable. Just looked at a NIB 1988 MKII I own and it has a factory 3 coil trigger spring. Trigger reset never concerned me during speed shooting.

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...cID1/mID3/dID5
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2011, 01:33 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Mike:

This comes up on a fairly regular basis so you are not alone. In addition to what Burgs and Wags have stated, I would include the following:

The two coil will be firmer but still may not rise to the level of telling you it is okay now to change directions. That is the message that users of other formats seem to want the hi power to send to their brains. As an old revolver guy and a trap doubles shooter, I have always come all the way off to get back on if that makes any sense to you. In at or about 2003, an attempt was made to retrain me with an h and k usp with the lem trigger. I was not able to make use of the come off part way feature to achieve the lighter trigger pull follow up shots. You might give the three coil more of a chance before you try the two if for no other reason than to avoid the pita of changing it. There is also the shipping will run more than the part if you do not get anything else at the same time. I do not expect browning still has the two coil as they only show one number on the parts list. I have heard that there are hi power smiths that have drawers full of them though. Good luck with your transition.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Mike Grasso Mike Grasso is offline
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I was able to actually take another look at the trigger and spring, the trigger actually moves a bit before the spring tension starts. If you manipulate the weapon you can watch the trigger "wobble". I understand the reset issue, so what i need is a spring that keep the trigger under tension and returns it positively.

Mike
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:04 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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All I seem to have at my disposal is my own experience. I have hi powers with twos and with threes, some with the mds in place, some not, some with trigger work and some without. I personally do not notice any differences in actual operation. Some folks say they do notice and I have no reason to doubt them. That particular spring does not seem really heavy duty. It may just need replacement at an interval that is not known to me, regardless of number of coils. I know of a fellow that does not come around here much that has a tech manual. I can ask him if the manual gives any guidance on that particular spring.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Bob Reed Bob Reed is offline
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Hello,

The Browning High Power trigger spring does two jobs - the front bend (or half loop) returns the trigger and the tail-end of the spring applies pressure to rotate the trigger lever when the disconnect is engaged (or disengaged depending on how you view it) and the tail-end of the spring is what keeps the lever in the fire position when the disconnect is totally removed.

The reason the two coil spring was stronger, is because they were made from larger diameter wire. The number of coils in this case actually has nothing to do with the strength of the spring, and the reason the current three coil spring has three coils verses two, is to simply take up the extra side-to-side space that was created by the smaller diameter wire that's used for the current trigger spring. The space I'm talking about is where the spring set's in it's channel between the sides of the trigger, and the coils purpose is simply to create an attachment point for the trigger spring pin.

I have noticed on a few MK3s after removing the disconnect that the trigger didn't have ample tension when at rest, and a some actually had a few thousands of free play when at rest. And as some of you already know, I don't like aftermarket springs for The HP, so I adjusted the front bend on a mandrel in order to give it more force.

BTW: The guns that had free play in the trigger after the disconnect was removed, is because the disconnects shoe was acting as a stop on the frame (where it protrudes into the mag well) and prevented the trigger from rotating quite as far forward as it did without it in place. Once the disconnect is removed, the rear of the trigger's body where the disconnect was now becomes the stop - and it barely catches on the frame at that. Chances are, if your trigger has a few thousands of free play when at rest after you've removed the disconnect - then the disconnects slot in the frame is slightly over cut and is allowing the trigger to rotate slightly further forward, and you need to adjust the front bend (or loop) in the spring in order to gain some tension and take up the slack.

Chuntaro: There's no mention of the trigger spring in the maintenance manual other than how to replace it, but I really wish that FN would have just stayed with the original, stronger trigger spring and one of the popular Custom BHP Pistolsmiths told me that he's had a couple of the aftermarket trigger springs break, but has Never seen a FN Factory trigger spring break. So, until someone starts making a stronger, High Quality replacement spring - I'll just keep adjusting the factory three coil springs as needed... which hasn't been a lot.
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"LONG LIVE THE FN-BROWNING-SAIVE HIGH POWER"
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:48 PM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Thanks so much for all that typing Mr. Reed. I wish I could memorialize up top what you have said so that it might easily be available in the future. That is an outstanding explanation.
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Bob Reed Bob Reed is offline
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You're very welcome Chuntaro, I was glad to type it and hope it helps.
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"LONG LIVE THE FN-BROWNING-SAIVE HIGH POWER"
John Browning & Dieudonne Saive's Designs Will Always be Light Years Ahead of All the Others.
I'd rather beat a bad guy to death with my Browning High Power, than shoot him dead with a plastic pistol.
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:50 PM
Mike Grasso Mike Grasso is offline
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Thank you also, at least I can see the difference and adjust accordingly.

Mike
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- Ernest Hemingway & USMS Motto
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  #11  
Old 08-26-2011, 10:46 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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Mike:

I hope Mr. Bob Reed's great dissertation was able to get you on track. My belief, apparently erroneous, was that this issue was one of shooter interface in all cases. Now, with the information above I see I am unable to totally rely on my own inventory. I do continue to think that shooter interface is a factor in a majority of cases but understand that in a limited number of cases in Mr. Reed's experience, there is a mechanical aspect. The addition of the third coil to take up the space in the well created by going with a smaller gauge wire makes perfect sense. The fact that two coils of the old wire occupied the same space really says something about the wire difference which has to have an effect on trigger sense. Add in the possible additional travel that can be added by removal of the mds without adding the tension to take up the slack and there is a real recipe for one to think this does not feel right, with the benefit of feeling before and after.
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