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  #1  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:09 AM
2ndAmendmentMason 2ndAmendmentMason is offline
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Full Length Guide Rod Vs. GI Short Guide Rod




I am looking for pro's and con's of a full length guide rod vs. the GI style short guide rod. I have a Colt 1911 SS Government and it is equipped w/ the GI syle set up. This is something that I have looked at changing, but then again, this is all still new to me and I am trying to control my urges to change things that are obviously "not broke"!
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Alland Alland is offline
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Which guide rod? It's strictly personal preference. I have some with a GI guide rod and some with a FLGR. I don't notice much difference one way or the other. Whatever floats your boat.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:29 AM
John_M_Browning John_M_Browning is offline
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I changed the FLGR from my taurus because it was a two piece and the head was loose although it was staked and having had a milled one-piece GI length from EGW on my Springfield, it made sense to swap it. But honestly if the head on that FLGR had been tight I wouldn't have spent $30 changing it.

The only one I would change is one of those that need unscrewed or an allen wrench to take down, I'm not messing with that stuff.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:34 AM
Devereaux Devereaux is offline
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As any number of serious self-defense types will tell you, if you really bet your life on this weapon, then keep the original short recoil guide. If all you want is a weapon to enjoy, then have at whatever you like.

There are "issues" with FLGR's. Doesn't mean they are "bad" guns - just not necessarily ones to bet the farm on, day in and day out. You can always keep the FLGR in for regular shooting, and substitute the short guide when you need the gun to act for SD purposes.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:03 AM
2ndAmendmentMason 2ndAmendmentMason is offline
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I really appreciate all of the insights. This is not a ccw (plan to buy a Commander for that), just my new toy that my wife bought me for my birthday. Together we have put about 150rds through it and have had no problem (I know that isn't a lot!). I have seen a few discussions on this subject and I am just kinda curious about it. Do the full length versions "tighten" up the pistol at all?
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:09 AM
BillD BillD is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devereaux View Post
As any number of serious self-defense types will tell you, if you really bet your life on this weapon, then keep the original short recoil guide. If all you want is a weapon to enjoy, then have at whatever you like.

There are "issues" with FLGR's. Doesn't mean they are "bad" guns - just not necessarily ones to bet the farm on, day in and day out. You can always keep the FLGR in for regular shooting, and substitute the short guide when you need the gun to act for SD purposes.
I've got over 30K on my STI equipped with a FLGR. Why would I want to change it to a GI rod for SD?

Are you going to tell me if I get a jam that locks up the gun I can push on the front and clear it with a GI rod? During a gunfight?
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:43 PM
2ndAmendmentMason 2ndAmendmentMason is offline
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So, I am guessing from the way that it sounds, it kinda seems like the manufacturer (as in the their specific design parameters) may have more of an influence over this question than anything? Seems like both sides have good arguments. I have just been curious, as I am new to this and have the modification bug pretty bad! If you have or switch out to a FLGR, then you have to have a bushing wrench for stripping your pistol down, correct? I know that vendors what to sell products, I have noticed that they say switching to a FLGR can help w/ the frame to slide cycling, extend recoil spring life, improve accuracy on older style 1911's. I just wanted to hear the good and bad experiences that you all may have had using them or not using them.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:03 PM
DArBad DArBad is offline
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I have had nothing but GI style guide rods and a two piece style FLGR in my previous 1911s, and had recently bought 2 Kimber 1911s with the FLGRs. I like the One piece style of FLGRs as they SEEM to make the function that much SMOOTHER for me.

Last edited by DArBad; 07-08-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:24 PM
eljay45 eljay45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post

Are you going to tell me if I get a jam that locks up the gun I can push on the front and clear it with a GI rod? During a gunfight?
That's it Bill,afterall you never know when you'll get in a gunfight, lose the use of one arm, have your gun jam and have a handy table edge to clear your gun on all at the same time.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:39 PM
Devereaux Devereaux is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I've got over 30K on my STI equipped with a FLGR. Why would I want to change it to a GI rod for SD?

Are you going to tell me if I get a jam that locks up the gun I can push on the front and clear it with a GI rod? During a gunfight?
?Want to argue the issue - talk to Hilton Yam at 10-8. Among others. I believe I'd trust what he has found out with much real world experience.

Last edited by Devereaux; 07-08-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:52 PM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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. Let's stir the pot:

Does thus mean all those Novak sights are wrong since you can't hook the sight on your belt to rack the slide? We all need to go to the Heinie, 10 - 8 or Colt type rear sights?

Maybe all the F92 Berrettas need to be converted?

I understand the arguments, and agree to some. But alot has been hashed over this that never gets buried.
And it is all 1911 related.
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Last edited by Magnumite; 07-08-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:12 PM
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DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I've got over 30K on my STI equipped with a FLGR. Why would I want to change it to a GI rod for SD?

Are you going to tell me if I get a jam that locks up the gun I can push on the front and clear it with a GI rod? During a gunfight?
Yes.

Also, the FLGR was designed to do nothing more than increase the weight at the muzzle to reduce (marginally) the muzzle flip. It serves no other purpose.

If you like them, fine. But it has been argued here so often that a cursory search of the forums would yield a plethora of threads on the subject.

In the end, they do no harm, so if it trips your trigger, then go for it. THere are plenty of good reasons to go with a GI setup, though, so it's all plusses to go from an FLGR to a GI setup.
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  #13  
Old 07-09-2011, 02:31 AM
NonPCnraRN NonPCnraRN is offline
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I got a FireDragon dual action recoil reducer. It is a full length rod with an inner and outer spring. It dampens the recoil of +P Buffalo Bore and Corbon ammo. It is as easy to install or remove as a GI guide rod. The inner spring acts like a shock absorber for the last 1/4 to 3/16 of an inch of slide travel. It acts like a FLGR but with the dampening effect of a buffer. Reliability is 100%, unlike using a buffer.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2011, 06:25 AM
egumpher egumpher is offline
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Hello,

The OP wanted the pros and cons of a full length guide rod (FLGR)

FLGR pros:
One advantage to a FLGR is that it allows the pistol entire top end to be removed without first removing the barrel bushing. This will help on pistols that have tight barrel bushings:

Here is a picture of a TRP Operator next to a P226. Both with their top ends removed by removing nothing more then the slide stop:



The other advantage a FLGR offers is that it adds a little more weight to the front of the pistol which theoretically should reduce muzzle flip. Recoil is always the same regardless because recoil is determined by ammo pressures and weights. Remember that a 30-06 Breech bolt rifle have plenty of recoil but nothing moves to generate muzzle flip. There are recoil dampers on many shotguns and some for the 1911 but I have never considered using them for the 1911. Nothing is 100% reliable. This is physically impossible. Everything will eventually break.

FLGR cons:
Some FLGR make the pistol more difficult to disassemble and require additional tooling. The TRP shown above requires a pin tool to remove the FLGR. Not all FLGR designs are like this though. For example, Colt uses a FLGR that can be disassembled just as a GI guide rod.

Enjoy
Eric

Last edited by egumpher; 07-09-2011 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:33 AM
Magnumite Magnumite is offline
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Is the springco unit really that effective? Never used one, curious.

As far as the weight out front goes, I used two guns in a steel match. One a bull barrel 5" standard frame/slide setup for soft loads with flgr. The other a 5" rail frame gun with standard cut slide and set for full power ammo using GI guide rod and plug. Used 200 gr/740 fps ammo In both. Both shoot well.

I shot the rail gun faster and it ran smoother and it came back on target quicker. I know the extra weight is lower and isn't reciprocating, both which help. I am now reassessing my steel setup.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:53 AM
leade45 leade45 is offline
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Muzzel weight non withstanding, I have a non railed TRP w/ a FLGR and two other full size semi production 1911's with the standard guide rod and the TRP seems to have a different feel during recoil. Maybe smoother is the best way to discribe it. Not sure added muzzel weight would affect that. I am tempted to put the FLGR in those other guns and see if I can sense the same thing as it is a positive improvment in recoil feel.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:55 AM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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Originally Posted by Magnumite View Post
Is the springco unit really that effective? Never used one, curious.

As far as the weight out front goes, I used two guns in a steel match. One a bull barrel 5" standard frame/slide setup for soft loads with flgr. The other a 5" rail frame gun with standard cut slide and set for full power ammo using GI guide rod and plug. Used 200 gr/740 fps ammo In both. Both shoot well.

I shot the rail gun faster and it ran smoother and it came back on target quicker. I know the extra weight is lower and isn't reciprocating, both which help. I am now reassessing my steel setup.
Interesting set-ups to be sure, Magnumite, and I am sure that both you and the guns shoot very well, but I don't feel that they make for a fair comparison for a FLGR as they are both set-up for different parameters. I have no doubt in my mind that the second gun, (the rail gun) runs faster, smoother, and is back on target quicker. I doubt that the FLGR is what is causing the first gun to not be a smooth running as the second. FWIW & IMHO.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:40 AM
2ndAmendmentMason 2ndAmendmentMason is offline
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Thanks for the very helpful input! I think I will buy a FLGR and try it out to see how I like it. Any ideas on brands to look at? I live in Arkansas, so I was leaning towards a Wilson Combat product (trying to help a local business out). I would love to have other suggests as to what manufacturer's FLGRs you guys have used successfully or unsuccessfully.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:52 AM
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Well then there is the cool end caps you can get when you go with the GI set up.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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Originally Posted by 2ndAmendmentMason View Post
Thanks for the very helpful input! I think I will buy a FLGR and try it out to see how I like it. Any ideas on brands to look at? I live in Arkansas, so I was leaning towards a Wilson Combat product (trying to help a local business out). I would love to have other suggests as to what manufacturer's FLGRs you guys have used successfully or unsuccessfully.
First of all I would determine if I wanted a 1 piece or 2 piece FLGR. Personally, I like the 1 piece Wilson FLGR. The 2 piece is easier to take down, generally requires a allen wrench to do it, but the 2 piece can come apart. After trying both, I prefer the 1 piece. Nothing wrong with supporting the LGS and Wilson Combat too.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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Well then there is the cool end caps you can get when you go with the GI set up.
Dave
That is kool, Dave.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:42 AM
Shad Roe Shad Roe is offline
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Gotta go with Dave on this. The Eagle,Globe,and Anchor is very nice!

I'd like to find a GI spring plug with a Navy SeaBee emblem. My brother's outfit.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
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Other than making disassembly more difficult and seperating more money from your wallet, a FLGR serves no useful purpose.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:13 PM
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Other than making disassembly more difficult and seperating more money from your wallet, a FLGR serves no useful purpose.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Gary Wells Gary Wells is offline
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Other than making disassembly more difficult and seperating more money from your wallet, a FLGR serves no useful purpose.
Opinions vary.
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