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  #26  
Old 05-25-2011, 08:57 PM
Fabius Fabius is offline
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The lower is the same as the other S&W models, as far as I can tell. Should accept a new upper just like any other lower. The Sport is standard AR dimensions.

The cost savings appear to come first from the lack of a forward assist and dust cover. I assume that this simplifies the forging of the upper receiver and eliminates the cost of those parts. The barrel is also less expensive for Smith and Wesson to make because they are already set up to do melonite treatment (the M&P pistol slides are melonited) and Thompson Center, which S&W bought a few years ago, does the 5R rifling of its barrels.

The bottom of the trigger guard is integrated, rather than hinged. That probably saves some cost by simplifying the forging of the lower. The bottom of the trigger guard is contoured so a gloved finger should fit easily. The M&P15T has the same trigger guard.

I bought the Sport because I think that S&W made some smart decisions. Most of the manufacturers who offer less expensive AR's do so by simply dropping important but expensive milspec features such as chrome lining of the barrel. Smith and Wesson substituted a less expensive, but comparable feature - melonite treatment. It dropped those features that 99.9% of civilian buyers don't need, such as the dust cover, the forward assist and the hinged bottom on the trigger guard. The rest of the rifle appears to be manufactured to the same standards as the more expensive M&P15 offerings. The result is, I hope, a high quality rifle at a reasonable cost.

That's the theory, anyway. We'll see if it holds water after about 5,000 rounds. If not, I'll stick a BCM or Spikes upper on it.
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  #27  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:06 PM
customtrigger customtrigger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drastic View Post
First of all, if you're an AR snob and you're gonna say "neither they both suck" - please don't waste my time or your own by posting in this thread. Yes, I realize they are cheap guns. And yes, I know where to look for high quality AR-15's.

Anyone have first-hand experience with both by any chance? I am totally new to AR's and would be interested in buying one of these as a "first timer" thing, with the plan of buying a really nice one down the road after I educate myself some more. Just wanted to ask you guys about pros/cons between these 2 rifles. They seem very similar, but since they are the same price - which would you get if you were going to get a "value AR" for paper punching?

Thanks brothers!
The cheapest rifle will be the best paper puncher. Saying it is not a factory lemon. Furthermore, I do not have a dog in this race, but maybe you should personally handle each rifle before you "pull the trigger." IMHO
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  #28  
Old 05-26-2011, 01:29 PM
GunBugBit GunBugBit is offline
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I have a S&W M&P 15x, seems like a fine AR. I've read good reviews and have spoken with a few other satisfied owners. It may be regarded as just a "starter" but it's all the AR I'll ever need or want.
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2011, 11:55 PM
fadedsun fadedsun is offline
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SW over DPMS all day long..and on sunday.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee: Get thine Smith while thy getting is good.

DPMS makes good hobby guns..but I've seen too many out of spec DPMS parts to ever trust them.
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  #30  
Old 05-30-2011, 06:46 AM
Johnny Numbers Johnny Numbers is offline
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I'm a Colt snob, but if it came down to the two choices you mention...I wouldn't hesitate to get the S&W and then just shoot the snot out of it.

...and as a very good point was brought up...you can always switch out the upper to something of higher mil-spec quality (BCM, Spikes, etc.) later on.

Before I bought my carbine, I did extensive research and I never heard or read anything negative about the S&W and we all know about their warranty. On the other hand, DPMS is a crapshoot. Some say they never had an issue and they run just fine, but I read to many negatives to even consider going that route.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
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  #31  
Old 05-30-2011, 08:02 AM
Dane17 Dane17 is offline
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In all candor I would spend a little more money and buy a BCM upper for around 400 (I just bought a lw 14.5 pinned flash hider for 399) .

Spend another 100 on a lower. 60 on a parts kit and build it yourself. It will cost you more in the end because you will need a bcg, furniture, sites...

But you will have a top quality rifle that you assembled the lower on yourself and will have an intimate understanding of it's function.

Building a lower is straightforward with lots of resources available on how to do it.
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  #32  
Old 05-30-2011, 08:30 AM
jonconsiglio jonconsiglio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drastic View Post
You guys do know I'm talking about the $600'ish models of AR's from Smith and DPMS, right? I'm not sure if some of you guys realized that. Smith still a better bet?
S&W will always be the better deal between the two. DPMS seems to not care about quality or any consistency. I've owned both but not the Sport models. I wouldn't buy a regular S&W now as there's no need since I can get other guns with the features I want for the same price.

But, since you aren't interested in the higher quality guns, I'd strongly suggest the M&P. I have broken two DPMS guns (kind of) and these were not their cheap models, relatively speaking.

S&W knows how to build quality firearms and even if I think there are better options than these sporter guns, I can say you'll at least get the same quality from whichever S&W you pull off the rack of the local shop where between 10 DPMS guns, it'll be a crap shoot if you get the one that won't junk out on you. Consistency is very important here.

It appears the M&P lower is the same as their better offerings so at least you aren't getting a cheap lower as well, as far as I can tell by the images.

It seems that it'll be a fine rifle if you need a plinker. It's definitely a step up from DPMS, Oly, Del Ton, etc. You can always change the hand guards ivy I'd like. On this rifle I'd just throw on a set of Magpul MOE's for comfort and that's pretty much it.

I'd also suggest looking at an H buffer or possibly an H2. Most commercial grade guns have a tendency to be over gassed with their larger than spec gas ports, 16" barrels, carbine gas systems and carbine buffers. The extra weight of an H or H2 buffer can make a considerable difference in handling characteristics during fire and also has the potential to make it more reliable as it lessens the chance of certain malfunctions. Same goes for the full auto carrier compared to the standard AR15 carriers they use.

The buffer would be my number one recommendation if you buy any commercial grade gun.
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  #33  
Old 06-05-2011, 09:23 PM
Firehouse Firehouse is offline
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I'm an S&W guy. Anyone who asks me my opinion on an entry level AR gets the S&W pump. I wouldn't have a DPMS is if was given to me. I'd hock it for something else. I've owned a couple of M&P15's but sold them to upgrade to a Colt and a BCM.
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  #34  
Old 06-10-2011, 07:31 AM
steelpony steelpony is offline
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HAD a dpms..... it was a beastly ill mannered critter, couldn't give me one now.
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  #35  
Old 06-10-2011, 09:01 PM
Fabius Fabius is offline
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Quote:
I'd also suggest looking at an H buffer or possibly an H2. Most commercial grade guns have a tendency to be over gassed with their larger than spec gas ports, 16" barrels, carbine gas systems and carbine buffers.
+1. I put in a Spikes Tactical ST-T2 buffer. The weight is between an H and H2 buffer. Smoothed out the recoil impulse noticeably. The rifle functioned perfectly with the factory buffer, so its really a personal choice.
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:33 PM
quadragin quadragin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ria View Post
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2209.php

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1560.php

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1633.php

$630 + $15 shipping.

That is a bunch of carbine for $645. Right now all they have is the 14.5" barrel, but keep your eyes open for the 16" ones. They will be out soon.
So I clicked on these links..... can you clarify thanks
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  #37  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:44 PM
Eagles1911 Eagles1911 is offline
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I'd definately say do PSA if you're on a budget. its definately the best bang for your buck
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2012, 07:03 PM
midwest1911 midwest1911 is offline
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BTW....this thread is over a year old. Just sayin.
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  #39  
Old 11-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Eagles1911 Eagles1911 is offline
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haha oops. i didnt even notice
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  #40  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:06 AM
MattK1 MattK1 is offline
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Last edited by MattK1; 11-16-2012 at 07:31 AM.
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  #41  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:11 AM
MattK1 MattK1 is offline
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!

Last edited by MattK1; 11-16-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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  #42  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:16 AM
MattK1 MattK1 is offline
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oops!!

Last edited by MattK1; 11-16-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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  #43  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:27 AM
quadragin quadragin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykellogg View Post
I have not had any experience with either. The "sport" has no forward assist, no dust cover and the bore is not chrome lined. It also has a 1:9 twist which is better for heavier bullets. Still S&W has a better name. There is one for sale at a gun store near me for $595 and I think he will dicker a bit. I will throw this out, CDNN Sports has the S&W M&P15 M4 style carbine for $749.99 after $100 rebate from S&W. they throw in 10 Thermold 20 round magazines and a carry handle. This offer is good through Dec 31.

Either way, I would pass on the DPMS.

Have you looked at Palmetto State Armory? For about $600 you get a 14.5" M4 style upper with full auto BCG and a chrome lined barrel. You would have to do some light assembly, but no special tools req'd. (Upper $400, Lower Parts $100, Receiver $80)

I cant find that deal on their web site
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  #44  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:22 AM
Munch520 Munch520 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1911 View Post
BTW....this thread is over a year old. Just sayin.
Might be why the links don't work

To the question at hand...yea PSA seems like the best bet in the price category.
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  #45  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Johnny Numbers Johnny Numbers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadragin View Post
I cant find that deal on their web site
Because it was over a year ago!
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  #46  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:43 AM
Don Flynn Don Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashoverrideplik View Post
AR's are like 57 Chevy's, you can do anything to them and spend a ton of money really quick.
Suddenly I see AR-15's with fuzzy dice hanging from the bayonet lugs
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  #47  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:21 AM
p0intblank p0intblank is offline
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Like someone mentioned before, get a psa. I started with a M&P ORC and my experience is not so great. DPMS sportical is one of the ugliest AR in my opinion (think about that awful front sight base)
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  #48  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:15 AM
horseman horseman is offline
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Bummer Pointblank. I also started with the M/p OR and it has been super. Although I will admit just the BCG, barrel and receivers are left of the original. That says more about me than the carbine though.
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  #49  
Old 11-23-2012, 10:19 AM
velocity2006 velocity2006 is offline
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Guess I am one of the few, I went DPMS with my last AR build (just the upper for a base). It shoots sub MOA at 100 easily, which is about all you can expect from a carbine length AR and I have had 0 malfunctions.

Have friends with the Smith and its a decent gun as well.

Seriously though that PSA deal is about as good of a buy you can get for an AR.
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