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  #1  
Old 05-22-2011, 10:11 PM
drastic drastic is offline
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Entry level AR-15's... S&W M&P15 Sport vs. DPMS Sportical - which would you get?




First of all, if you're an AR snob and you're gonna say "neither they both suck" - please don't waste my time or your own by posting in this thread. Yes, I realize they are cheap guns. And yes, I know where to look for high quality AR-15's.

Anyone have first-hand experience with both by any chance? I am totally new to AR's and would be interested in buying one of these as a "first timer" thing, with the plan of buying a really nice one down the road after I educate myself some more. Just wanted to ask you guys about pros/cons between these 2 rifles. They seem very similar, but since they are the same price - which would you get if you were going to get a "value AR" for paper punching?

Thanks brothers!
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2011, 10:20 PM
Gabe Asher Gabe Asher is offline
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Between the 2 I would definitely go with the S&W if nothing else for their warranty. Wait I did buy a M&P-15...crap I guess my vote don't count due to bias
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2011, 10:28 PM
drastic drastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Asher View Post
Between the 2 I would definitely go with the S&W if nothing else for their warranty. Wait I did buy a M&P-15...crap I guess my vote don't count due to bias
You have the Sport? Or one of the expensive M&P's?
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:00 PM
Gabe Asher Gabe Asher is offline
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What the heck is the "sport" ? I bought my S&W M&P-15 M4 right after they first came out due to their LE discount and liked it so much I took it home for the house. I also have a DPMS that Ive had for about 8yrs now but Its not a "sportical" if thats what your talkin about

Rule of thumb...don't buy anything that has some cheesy name added to it ! Its called Poser marketing
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  #5  
Old 05-22-2011, 11:06 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is offline
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About three years ago I was all set to go the Noveske route.

Well a few things happened that made me rethink that. At any rate I got a really good deal on a S&W performance center model M&P. Well this thing has performed flawlessly since with sub MOA accuracy with good ammo. I have a Schmidt and Bender scope on it so that whatever accuracy is there. I can surely utilize it. The long and the short of it was that I subsequently purchased one of the regular production carbines by S&W for a house gun. It shoots as well as the performance center gun.

It is your money, you do what you like.

Last edited by USMM guy; 09-07-2011 at 07:20 AM.
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  #6  
Old 05-23-2011, 06:48 AM
ria ria is offline
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I'm an AR-"snob" and the S&W definitely does NOT "suck".

It's a really good starter AR.

I've just had too many problems with DPMS rifles and carbines to recommend them to anyone. They can be made to run, but that's about it.
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2011, 06:58 AM
KimberZ71 KimberZ71 is offline
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I sold off a S&W to fund a BCM after a guy at work brought his in. At the same time a buddy bought a DPMS. The S&W had better fit & finish and you could tell was higher quality. That said, my friend has had no problems with his DPMS, it has shot steel and brass in .223 and 5.56. He averages about 100 rounds a month with it. The S&W never gave me problems either.
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:33 AM
Jaykellogg Jaykellogg is offline
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I have not had any experience with either. The "sport" has no forward assist, no dust cover and the bore is not chrome lined. It also has a 1:9 twist which is better for heavier bullets. Still S&W has a better name. There is one for sale at a gun store near me for $595 and I think he will dicker a bit. I will throw this out, CDNN Sports has the S&W M&P15 M4 style carbine for $749.99 after $100 rebate from S&W. they throw in 10 Thermold 20 round magazines and a carry handle. This offer is good through Dec 31.

Either way, I would pass on the DPMS.

Have you looked at Palmetto State Armory? For about $600 you get a 14.5" M4 style upper with full auto BCG and a chrome lined barrel. You would have to do some light assembly, but no special tools req'd. (Upper $400, Lower Parts $100, Receiver $80)

Last edited by Jaykellogg; 05-23-2011 at 07:36 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:41 AM
KimberZ71 KimberZ71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaykellogg View Post
It also has a 1:9 twist which is better for heavier bullets.
I always heard that 1:9 was good for lighter, up to about 62 grain projectiles. 1:7 better for 55 through 77 grain.
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:41 AM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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M&p 15x

Taking advantage of an LEO discount program offered by S&W, I too purchased an M&P 15.

I have their M&P 15X and have never had a problem with it.

Good starter AR IMHO.

Fin
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:43 AM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberZ71 View Post
I always heard that 1:9 was good for lighter, up to about 62 grain projectiles. 1:7 better for 55 through 77 grain.
Actually, my rifle (1:9) seems to shoot 69 gr. HPBT's with the most accuracy.

Fin
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2011, 08:54 AM
drastic drastic is offline
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You guys do know I'm talking about the $600'ish models of AR's from Smith and DPMS, right? I'm not sure if some of you guys realized that. Smith still a better bet?
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2011, 09:00 AM
crashoverrideplik crashoverrideplik is offline
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Either rifle is a good start on a AR platform. I used to own 2 M&P AR's and they are very good rifles. Which ever one you chose you have now opened yourself up to a whole new level of spending. AR's are like 57 Chevy's, you can do anything to them and spend a ton of money really quick. If you do buy one you need to look at 3 items first:

1. magazines are the first thing you should buy. Have at least 5, I prefer to have 10. Magazine go quick when you shoot and reloading gets tiring and cuts down on the fun factor.

2. You should also look into optics and decide if you are going iron sites, scope or both. I use both, scope on top, with my Delta Point on a 45 degree mount and cant the gun for short range targets.

3. Some kind of sling. I use a Black Rain single point like this:

http://www.blackrainordnance.com/pro...e-point-sling/

Happy shooting!


PS: Buy lots of ammo!!!
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2011, 09:17 AM
glennm glennm is offline
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S&w
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:45 AM
jonconsiglio jonconsiglio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ria View Post
I'm an AR-"snob" and the S&W definitely does NOT "suck".

It's a really good starter AR.

I've just had too many problems with DPMS rifles and carbines to recommend them to anyone. They can be made to run, but that's about it.
Same here. I Will never recommend DPMS. I've broken two ad just the other day a dealer posted a pic of teo with fractures through the lower. DPMS said it would function and wouldn't take them back even though you could see completely through them. He decided to keep them and use them as examples of why not to buy DPMS.

S&W makes a fine gun. It's not my first choice and could use a few minor enhanncements, but I would have no issues with running one as my main rifle.... For example, if it was an issued duty weapon. I would have issues with a DPMS, Oly, Model One, and then RRA and Bushmaster without a bit of work. As much as i hate using any kind of placement, the S&W is at the top of the mid level ARs, I guess you could say.

Just do a quick search on m4carbine for issues with DPMS and issues with S&W. You'll see which comes out on top....easily.
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  #16  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:13 PM
jupiter7 jupiter7 is online now
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I'd stay away from the s&w "sport". I have smiths and love them. The sport model is not mil-spec, says so in description. Pick another to compare to the dpms and keep looking. Don't be afraid to search gunbroker for complete uppers and complete lowers. Buy your bolt carrier and charging handle separate. I built mine with buis at $630 including transfer fees.
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  #17  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:24 PM
jonconsiglio jonconsiglio is offline
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I was unaware of the sport differing that much. I'd too stay away from it if it's not up to spec or better.
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  #18  
Old 05-23-2011, 02:03 PM
Jaykellogg Jaykellogg is offline
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Differences in the "Sport" and regular M&P 1) bore not chrome lined, 1:8 twist, 2) no forward assist, 3) no dust cover, 4) stock not adjustable. (Has a rear sight.)

I believe the DPMS comes with 2 mags, and no rear sight. (you will add $50 for the sight).

If the choice were only between the two, I would go with the S&W.

If you can afford $749.99, I would buy the S&W M&P from CDNN Sports and get 10 mags and a carry handle included at no extra cost.

I still suggest you look at the PSA upper and lower. It would be just slightly over $600 with sights and mags.
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  #19  
Old 05-23-2011, 02:09 PM
drastic drastic is offline
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Thanks guys - awesomely helpful replies so far!
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2011, 02:45 PM
majorleeme majorleeme is offline
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Another alternative that I've heard good things is Del-Ton. They make good kits too, so you can put it together and know how everything works...
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2011, 05:54 PM
horseman horseman is offline
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My "starter" was the S&W OR. Last I saw you could get one for $800 or less if you shopped. I intended to shoot a red dot and 4000 rounds later that is still what I shoot. I would get the OR again if I had a do over.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2011, 08:59 PM
youngAR youngAR is offline
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The S&W of course. Shell deflectors and fa aren't really needed. It comes with a good rear sight and good barrel. 1/8, 5r ought to be accurate with most available rounds.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2011, 09:02 PM
Fabius Fabius is offline
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Bought a Sport about a month ago after considerable research. I'm very pleased with it. Some of the posts have incorrect information on the specs for the Sport, so hope this information helps:

Barrel - 1:8 twist, 5R rifling, melonite treated. The 5R rifling is used on the Army's M24 sniper rifle as well as Obermeyer, Krieger and Thompson Center target rifles. Its not AR milspec, but it is milspec for Army sniper rifles. Melonite treatment gives a surface hardness comparable to chrome lining, but does not change the barrel dimensions so won't affect accuracy. The Bushmaster ACR and S&W M&P 15T models use melonite treated barrels rather than chromelined barrels. I've noticed other manufacturers starting the switch to melonite treated barrels. Should be better than an unlined, untreated Chromemoly barrel in the DPMS.

The Sport has a casing deflector. It doesn't have a dustcover and forward assist.

The fit and finish on my Sport are excellent and it comes with the S&W warranty.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2011, 04:44 AM
ria ria is offline
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/2209.php

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1560.php

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1633.php

$630 + $15 shipping.

That is a bunch of carbine for $645. Right now all they have is the 14.5" barrel, but keep your eyes open for the 16" ones. They will be out soon.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Amos Iron Wolf Amos Iron Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabius View Post
Bought a Sport about a month ago after considerable research. I'm very pleased with it. Some of the posts have incorrect information on the specs for the Sport, so hope this information helps:

Barrel - 1:8 twist, 5R rifling, melonite treated. The 5R rifling is used on the Army's M24 sniper rifle as well as Obermeyer, Krieger and Thompson Center target rifles. Its not AR milspec, but it is milspec for Army sniper rifles. Melonite treatment gives a surface hardness comparable to chrome lining, but does not change the barrel dimensions so won't affect accuracy. The Bushmaster ACR and S&W M&P 15T models use melonite treated barrels rather than chromelined barrels. I've noticed other manufacturers starting the switch to melonite treated barrels. Should be better than an unlined, untreated Chromemoly barrel in the DPMS.

The Sport has a casing deflector. It doesn't have a dustcover and forward assist.

The fit and finish on my Sport are excellent and it comes with the S&W warranty.
Thanks for the info. I assume the Sport uses the same lower as the rest of the S&W line, so there should't be any reason someone couldn't swap uppers later if they wanted to add a few configurations. Something to think about.
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