1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > General > General Gun Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:10 AM
UUNetBill UUNetBill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Age: 53
Posts: 168
Military Installations - no private guns allowed




Not sure if it's this way everywhere, but I was just kind of curious what others thought about this. . .

First off, I'm retired military and currently work on a military installation in the Western US. The base policy is "No privately owned weapons allowed" - and being a federal installation, this obviously trumps state laws. So no matter that I live in a OC and CCW friendly state, I don't have an option to carry to and from work, which is quite a drive from the city. My concern is, obviously, that the most time I spend on the road each week is the time I don't have the ability to travel armed.

The research I've done so far is that personal weapons are not allowed on base, period. There is no range and there's a limited armory on this installation so storage in the base armory isn't an option - not that that's a viable option on most installations anyhow. . .

I guess my point is that by choosing to work for the government, I'm effectively limiting my 2A rights because, well, I can't bear arms to and from my place of employment. Just seems odd to me.

Has anyone else had a similar situation, or has anyone worked on a base that provided a secure storage place for weapons if you chose to carry to/from work? I used to work for a private company that banned weapons in their facility but they provided monitored lockers (which were used extensively!) for employees to store their guns. Seems like this would be a given on a military base, but I guess not. . .I'm thinking about petitioning the base leadership to at least offer weapon storage but I wanted to get some third-party input first. Thanks!

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:13 AM
polizei1 polizei1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cinci, OH
Posts: 1,315
It's the government, they do what they want. Get used to it, or find a new job.
__________________
-Cody Meyer
Semper Fi
Rudy Project USPSA Squad (Use Code: Pistol for 25% Off!)
1911 Addicts
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:21 AM
harley7892 harley7892 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 203
Unfortunately, the rights provided under the Constitution can be voluntarily waived. This is a quid pro quo, "this for that". To get the benefit of the job, you agree to waive your rights. It's a bit different than the government simply mandating that you give up your rights. I do sympathize with you however,
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:22 AM
M4finny M4finny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,990
Man,

That is a crapper.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:23 AM
bigwagon bigwagon is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 537
You could always hire a really good lawyer and see if you can run your case up to the Supreme Court. They might agree with you and direct the federal gov't to change its policy.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:44 AM
Largo Largo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,542
Well, I can't think of anywhere safer then being on a military installation. Fort Hood for example. Wait a sec...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:47 AM
UUNetBill UUNetBill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Age: 53
Posts: 168
Yeah, I think I'll pass on the lawyer, thanks.

I was mostly curious if anyone else had worked on an installation that provided storage. . .I know of at least one installation in the state that lets you transport weapons on post, at least to and from housing and the range, but all guns need to be registered with the provost marshal.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-12-2011, 11:07 AM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
Gov't contract employees are almost as hamstringed as Military personnel. I don't think alot of them realize that when they take that oath and become Military members they give up their rights under the Constitution and fall under the UCMJ.
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-12-2011, 11:10 AM
UUNetBill UUNetBill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Age: 53
Posts: 168
Dave, we don't give up our Constitutional rights, we just get piled on with the UCMJ. Makes things tricky sometimes!

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-12-2011, 11:18 AM
nosreme nosreme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 1,385
The military strives for the impossible: It wants to create a 100% risk-free society, and will do just about ANYTHING to avoid what it considers adverse publicity.

At huge Ft Belvoir, people who live in family housing can store their guns in their houses. Those who live in barracks have to keep them in their unit storage rooms, which makes for an impossible cleaning and lubricating job, I'd think. You can buy guns at the PX but have to take them straight home-no stops (supposedly) allowed. In order to bring a gun onto the installation it has to be disassembled as much as possible, whatever that means. There's no firing range on post if you can believe that. The CID criminal investigation types (different than military police) has to qualify at an off-post commercial range. I shoot at the same range, which is closer to Ft. Belvoir than to my house; it's an unnecessary pain in the neck not to be able to conduct business on post and then go directly to the range. I can just imagine the reaction of the rent-a-cops if they found a range bag with a couple of pistols and a fair amount of ammo during one of their random inbound vehicle searches.
__________________
Non-religious signature
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-12-2011, 11:31 AM
dakk dakk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 90
I am in the same situation, I drive about 40 mins to work, love my job and what I do to help defend our freedoms. That being said I do understand the military lives by a different set of rules than the average citizen, what I would like to see is a secure room either at the gate or base security. You must register your weapon with the base and upon entry into the base, stop and surrender your weapon and ammo to base security, they intern secure and keep the weapon until you leave the base. All applicable state laws apply (i.e. CCW required etc..)

I understand this puts some additional responsibly on the base personnel, but I would be willing to even pay a small fee each month for the convenience. I know a lot of people would not agree to give up your weapon, but I would much rather something like this than what I do now which is leave my gun at home when I am going to work. Just my .02 worth..
__________________
US Navy Retired, NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-12-2011, 11:47 AM
2495893 2495893 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 250
Well, FedRegs limits weapons in all federal buildings and installations - not just military bases. As others have stated, it is always a swap. You want in? Leave guns out.

It's one aspect of restricting 2d Amendment Rights that is not on my list of targeted restrictions.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:06 PM
wilkersk wilkersk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 358
It used to be that some folks could get base commander's written permission to have a personal firearm secured in their vehicle while driving on base. I even remember seeing a weapon clearing station at the main gate for CCW permit holders.

The problem is, that security aboard military bases is so tight, and so many base discretionary budgets are so tight, that what was once allowed at the CO's pleasure, just ain't no more.

When I lived in the barracks, I used to rent a locker out in town to store several guns and a hunting bow. I could've gotten permission from the CO to bring them on base. But, I would have had to store them in the base armory, what a PITA that was!
__________________
"Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas!"-Well, I'm trying anyway...

Last edited by wilkersk; 05-12-2011 at 12:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:08 PM
m_ragan m_ragan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: N.W. Ohio
Age: 55
Posts: 28
My son is stationed at Ft. Campbell, KY. When he lived in the barracks he had to store his personal firearms in his unit's armory. He had access to them 24/7 and they had a very well organized and equipped work area to clean their weapons. When he got married they moved into base housing and he is allowed to keep them at home.
__________________
Because it can't always be someone else's son! Proud parent of a U.S. Soldier!

"Are we at last brought to such humility and debase degration, that we as Americans can not be trusted with arms for our own defense?"--Patrick Henry, 1788 via Jeff Cooper.

Last edited by m_ragan; 05-13-2011 at 05:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:15 PM
John_M_Browning John_M_Browning is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Platte City, MO
Posts: 445
I currently work as an Army Civilian on a Post and I've dealt with this exact situation.

The answer is: don't do it.

Now, it's like anything else gun control-ish. They allow it, but it's so convoluted with requisites like registration at the PMO, disassembled while on base (actually it says "Bolt removed"), must declare it to the gate guard on entry.

So the simple answer is, don't do it.

So I don't. But, I have a lady friend that carry's all the time, keeps her Thunder .380 at the bottom of her purse. Logic being if she get's tagged at the gate for a random, they don't search through personal belongings.

That seems to be the only way to subvert the system. I've thought about getting one of those undercover day planners but I just don't care to risk it and have a rent-a-cop go nuts at the gate over my legally owned gun.

I'll add here also and maybe some folks have been fortunate, but when I was an Armorer and we had POW's in the armory, trust me: You don't want your personal weapons stored there. Young troopers on duty usually played with them and they got rough handled in a metal wall locker.

Last edited by John_M_Browning; 05-12-2011 at 12:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:17 PM
JerryM JerryM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 3,197
This is addressed from time to time, and it boils down to the fact that if the Commander says no guns then obey or get a new job.

Sure Ft Hood shows that there are no safe places but I always felt very secure on a military installation. I never heard of a single shooting in my 22 years of active duty; most of which was lived on base.

I admit that I play the odds, and consider that my chances are many, many times likely to get hurt in a car accident than being attacked.


Regards,
Jerry
__________________
Proverbs 14:34 *śRighteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:22 PM
Horse'nround Horse'nround is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Western, WA
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUNetBill View Post
Not sure if it's this way everywhere, but I was just kind of curious what others thought about this. . .

First off, I'm retired military and currently work on a military installation in the Western US. The base policy is "No privately owned weapons allowed" - and being a federal installation, this obviously trumps state laws. Bill
Bill,

Technically the policy is set by the standing CO, that being said the DOD guidelines are rarely deviated from by CO's unless there are particular (very rare) situations that require the policy change. I have been working in the DOD world for a little over 36 years now and have seen changes come and go with CO's. The general trend is to follow the D.C. crowd into the "anti gun norming world of the Brady Bunch". I am very well acquainted with the security group on my station (we shoot together occasionally) since the late nineties they have not been able to carry on station, only the MarDet security force can. That policy was established by a female Co we got, a real gunban wingnut!! Within her 1st 90 days here she had staged a full on shake down of all personnel civ/cont. Upon main gate entry one morning all vehicles and personnel were directed to a parking lot full of eagerly awaiting (ARMED and VESTED) FBI and NIS agents who performed a complete search of your vehicle and person (yes that included a patdown) there were some really pissed off people around here, welcome to the new regime. That kind of zoo crap went on for the whole 2 years she was here. When she left it pretty much went back to don't ask don't tell. I'm afraid that 9/11 has pretty much screwed that into the dirt for good, seeing how they have created whole new federal factions dedicated to disarming and monitoring the public at large. I guess if you want to work for big brother (join team cow), and learn to moo...
__________________
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies,
there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Exodus 22:2
COTEP 439
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:23 PM
too_pure too_pure is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUNetBill View Post
Not sure if it's this way everywhere, but I was just kind of curious what others thought about this. . .

First off, I'm retired military and currently work on a military installation in the Western US. The base policy is "No privately owned weapons allowed" - and being a federal installation, this obviously trumps state laws. So no matter that I live in a OC and CCW friendly state, I don't have an option to carry to and from work, which is quite a drive from the city. My concern is, obviously, that the most time I spend on the road each week is the time I don't have the ability to travel armed.

The research I've done so far is that personal weapons are not allowed on base, period. There is no range and there's a limited armory on this installation so storage in the base armory isn't an option - not that that's a viable option on most installations anyhow. . .

I guess my point is that by choosing to work for the government, I'm effectively limiting my 2A rights because, well, I can't bear arms to and from my place of employment. Just seems odd to me.

Has anyone else had a similar situation, or has anyone worked on a base that provided a secure storage place for weapons if you chose to carry to/from work? I used to work for a private company that banned weapons in their facility but they provided monitored lockers (which were used extensively!) for employees to store their guns. Seems like this would be a given on a military base, but I guess not. . .I'm thinking about petitioning the base leadership to at least offer weapon storage but I wanted to get some third-party input first. Thanks!

Bill
The last time I didn't carry was when I wen to Luke AFB for the air show in March.

My employer doesn't allow firearms on the property. But they don't search me or my briefcase so . . . Although if it was a military base I'd likely feel differently.

The next time I will not be able to carry is tonight. My wife's graduation at a university campus. Really bugs me. I feel sorta naked.

I would definitely ask for storage. The worst that can happen is they say no.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Prima di tutto, essere armati. - Niccolo Machiavelli
Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen. - Jeff Cooper
It is bad to have to fight. It is worse to have to fight and lose.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:50 PM
1SHOT1HIT 1SHOT1HIT is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 34
Posts: 803
I worked at Quantico for many years and went through this same ordeal,

This is what I did I called the MP Station, And requested permission to carry to and from work, I was immediately denied lol, go figure.

Anyway I didn't give up there I called back moments later and asked the commanding officer (MP) What the problem was if I was to have the firearm unloaded in the locked trunk, In it's own locked box, With an additional locking device on the gun itself. And to my surprise I was granted permission. As long as I made EVERY effort to pull over every morning (OFF BASE) and unload the weapon, and go through the steps opf securing it to the MP's required stipulations, And if I was ever stopped at the gate for a random search to inform the MP that I had a secured locked and unloaded firearm locked in the trunk and offer to provide keys so that entry could be made by the officer to ensure proper storage.

My advice to you is to very KINDLY call the base commander, Or head of the base police and discuss the matter with them explain that you have a long drive through some bad areas and feel that it's in your best interest to arm yourself. Offer to pull over before entering the base to secure your weapon and leave it in that place until after you have left the base at the end of the day.

Good Luck Anythign is possible with a little persistance, Asking can only lead to being informed, And the worst that could happen would be a big fat no and I'm sure you've heard plenty No's in your life.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Willy Pete Willy Pete is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 766
[QUOTE=JerryM;3250978]
Sure Ft Hood shows that there are no safe places but I always felt very secure on a military installation. I never heard of a single shooting in my 22 years of active duty; most of which was lived on base.

A very quick and brief google search yielded the following on base shootings:

1994 Fairchild Air Force Base
2009 Fort Hood
2010 Fort Bliss Army Base
2010 Luke Air Force Base
2010 Pope Air Force

Apparently the Dept. of Navy bases are much more secure.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-12-2011, 01:09 PM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by UUNetBill View Post
Dave, we don't give up our Constitutional rights, we just get piled on with the UCMJ. Makes things tricky sometimes!

Bill, i was in the Air Force and Air Nat'l Guard for a total of 23-1/2 years. If you think you still have your Constitutional rights while in, Try speaking publically about the Gov't( Just one example). you don't give up all your rights but you lose some of them when you fall under the UCMJ. I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush but.....
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-12-2011, 01:11 PM
BHP9 BHP9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: God's Country & NY
Posts: 2,255
Go and speak to the base Provost Marshal and see if they can/will store for you. There is nothing to lose by asking.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-12-2011, 01:12 PM
stillwater's Avatar
stillwater stillwater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,955
Military Installations - no private guns allowed

Heaven help us if trained soldiers could get their hands on weapons!!

Only takes one gun related "incident" to end a commanding officer's career...

Politically speaking, better many Major Hassans than one drunken soldier injuring someone on a base somewhere.

World we live in.
__________________
"Rely not on the likelihood of the enemies not coming but on our own readiness to receive him" -SunTsu
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-12-2011, 02:05 PM
nosreme nosreme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere else
Posts: 1,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHP9 View Post
Go and speak to the base Provost Marshal and see if they can/will store for you. There is nothing to lose by asking.
Maybe, but I suspect he'll find out first-hand why bureaucrats get so easily to "no:" There's no review by superiors, no risk, and there are no forms to fill out or exceptions to policy tto grant (which the next requester will play back as "precident.")
__________________
Non-religious signature
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-12-2011, 02:42 PM
CRUE CAB CRUE CAB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne Florida
Age: 51
Posts: 2,284
My how times have changed.
Back, way back, in my youth. There was a firing range at Patrick AFB in Satellite Beach FL.
My dad was WWII Navy but had no base priviledges. He got out right after the war.
But we would use the range, drive through in and out of the base maingate with guns in the car and not even think twice about it.
No one ever asked, searched, freaked or noticed.
Now, of course that base security is up to standards as any. But back in the good ole days it was a different story.
__________________
Colt Series 80.45
Colt Commander.45
Colt Defender .45
RIA GI .45- RIA Compact .45 RIA Compact 9mm
GSG 1911 .22
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved