1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > General > General Gun Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Serafino Serafino is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 93
X bought Colt's equipment--really??




I have heard this about three different companies over the years. 10-20 years ago it was a company that was producing peacemaker-style revolvers. Lately it's been RIA and SIG.

Is there any actual documentation available that any of this is true?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:57 AM
DPris DPris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,108
No, because it never happened.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-08-2011, 07:44 PM
KSU Firefighter KSU Firefighter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 347
The thing that has always cracked me up about this one is that if somebody was going to build a replica of "whatever great old gun", why would they spend a a bunch of money buying old, worn out, antiquated equipment when they could get modern equipment with tighter tolerances that could build the gun cheaper? After all, the reason to build those great old guns of yesteryear is to sell them to all of us and make lots of money!
__________________
" A Bitter Clinger!"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-08-2011, 07:56 PM
thearmedrebel's Avatar
thearmedrebel thearmedrebel is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 9,074
Colt has historically used their equipment until it was no longer serviceable. No one's bought it to do reproductions, though US Fire Arms did buy Colt's old "Blue Dome" factory. True, they had to expand to hold all the CNC machines and whatnot.

Robert
__________________
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:09 PM
DPris DPris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,108
I don't know that USFA actually bought the old Colt factory building, and they certainly didn't stay there for long, but they bought no "old" equipment from Colt.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:40 PM
thearmedrebel's Avatar
thearmedrebel thearmedrebel is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 9,074
As stated, they did not buy tooling (Colt wore out the tooling for Gen 1 and 2, and are useing Gen 3), but they did buy (or rent) the dome, per their website:
Quote:
Originally Posted by USFA
"We made a commitment to build the Single Action Revolver “under the Blue Dome” in Colt’s original factory."
Robert
__________________
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2011, 07:54 AM
Dave Waits Dave Waits is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loveland, Ohio
Posts: 4,122
The only party I know of that bought Colt Machinery was Argentina in the 20s to build the Model 27 or Sistema Colt 1911.
__________________
Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
Jeff Cooper
COTEP#CBOB0428
Msgt., USAF,Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:55 PM
DPris DPris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,108
Yes, USFA did locate in the old Colt factory FOR A WHILE, but they've been out of it for some years now & did not buy or use old Colt equipment while they were there.
What I was saying is that I don't think USFA bought the building, not that they were never there.
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:59 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The frozen reaches of the North
Age: 31
Posts: 7,576
I just like to hear about how Armscor or whoever else overseas is using the old colt machinery. Yes the Rocks and Citadels have proven to be fantastic bargains but I really don't think you need Colt machinery to make a reliable 1911. Somehow I think people like the allure and the mythos of something being built to Colt specs.
__________________
One man with courage makes a majority. — Andrew Jackson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-10-2011, 11:16 PM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 17,194
The trigger guards on the Philippine guns don't look like Colt's, so that would settle it without knowing the history.
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-11-2011, 02:57 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,244
A few months ago I has a GSS (Gun Show Stooge) tell me that ARMSCOR had bought all of Colts tooling to produce the 1911. He was selling RIA 1911's. With a crowd around his table I said "Really....the original tooling from Colt"?????!!!!! Guy says "Yep....you buy an RIA, it's really a Colt.". I says "Wow....imagine that. RIA is making 1911's using tooling that is approaching 100 years old!!! That's EFFING AMAZING!!!!"

The crowd around me got it and the fact that I was making fun of this ignorant stooge's attempt to sell pistols. But this poor sap was certain that he was the last word on Colt tooling.

So 2 weeks ago I'm at this show again and low and behold, this cat has about 8 guys around his table, all looking at RIA's and he's telling the same story verbatem to the audience. Scary part is I'm certain most believe him.

Proof that half the population has no business voting in an election.
__________________
Ed Browns are the classy brunette on your arm at a cocktail party. Les Baers are the blonde nympho who goes with you to see Nugent in concert.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-11-2011, 03:12 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The frozen reaches of the North
Age: 31
Posts: 7,576
Rocks are good guns for the money spent but they are not Colts and I agree the trigger guard isn't the same Rick which I've pointed out. I've seen my fair of GSG's (going to use that forever thanks) preaching that particular line though I never go out of my way to point out how wrong they are. Thing is if some guy spends 300-400 on a Philippino made GI and wants to believe it's the same as an original colt (ignoring the grips, flat mainspring housing, etc...) and the guy selling the gun really seems to believe it as well? Well ignorance as they say is bliss and a lot these folks ain't going to shoot ten much less fifty thousand rounds out the barrel. Lot of people want a 1911 these days because of what it is and not because they really plan on shooting it all that much plus the dealers that believe it really feel like they have something.

Since newer guns are built to better specs, and even if the old machines were still around why would I want a gun built to the old specs when I could have a shiny new pistol that's made of better steel and to better tolerances than the originals? Like I said, I think it's a mystique or halo effect sort of deal. Old Colts are like windows into the past, you see them and you imagine Iwo Jima, D-Day, the G-Men of old fighting the depression era gangsters. You see Dillinger and Baby Face Nelson (who was sort of a pioneer when it came to modifying the 1911) well at least I see these things but I cannot deny a sort of macabre fascination with said times and men. A colt is a colt, a springer is a springer, a rock is a rock and vis a vis.
__________________
One man with courage makes a majority. — Andrew Jackson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-11-2011, 03:31 PM
bigwagon bigwagon is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodadek View Post
even if the old machines were still around why would I want a gun built to the old specs when I could have a shiny new pistol that's made of better steel and to better tolerances than the originals?.
What makes you say there was anything wrong or in any way inferior or less desirable with the original specs or tolerances of the 1911 design?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-11-2011, 03:43 PM
Kodadek Kodadek is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The frozen reaches of the North
Age: 31
Posts: 7,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwagon View Post
What makes you say there was anything wrong or in any way inferior or less desirable with the original specs or tolerances of the 1911 design?
I never said inferior but I've worked in production, modern CNC machining is amazing and how we process and refine steel has also improved. Besides that I recall going to more than one shop or show and handling old Colts some not fired all that often and a more modern GI or Mil Spec variant and noting they were better fitted. Is it a crime now to admit manufacturing techniques have improved? Nor did I say they are less desirable, I merely asked why I would want a 1911 built on 100 year old machinery to 100 year old production standards in the modern day and age? I would personally love to own an old Commercial Colt or an old National Match, certainly love to get my hands on a .38 Super from back in the day...I'd also shoot the piss out of all of them.
__________________
One man with courage makes a majority. — Andrew Jackson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-11-2011, 03:50 PM
bigwagon bigwagon is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 537
Tighter fitting of the slide to the frame is not necessarily "better" for a 1911. The original specs for the 1911 resulted in millions of pistols that provided 75 years of reliable military service. Today's modern specs seem to result in hundreds of threads about the reliability and customer service policies of numerous current manufacturers.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-11-2011, 04:57 PM
TRSOtto TRSOtto is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwagon View Post
Tighter fitting of the slide to the frame is not necessarily "better" for a 1911. The original specs for the 1911 resulted in millions of pistols that provided 75 years of reliable military service. Today's modern specs seem to result in hundreds of threads about the reliability and customer service policies of numerous current manufacturers.
I own a Rock. I own a mid 80's rattletrap Colt. Both are capable and perform well at what I want them to do at the price point I paid for them.

I also own 2 DW's, 3 Baers and a Brown with another Brown soon to join the stable.

For reliability and accuracy, I prefer my pistols fitted via the capabilities of modern machinery thank you very much.
__________________
Ed Browns are the classy brunette on your arm at a cocktail party. Les Baers are the blonde nympho who goes with you to see Nugent in concert.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-13-2011, 06:03 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Vermont (Caspian country)
Age: 60
Posts: 15,315
factness

The 1911 of yesteryear spawned the pistolsmiths of today, because the 1911 of yesteryear was a POS.
Armorers labored long to get the 1911 to run, and continue to run.
Now you can just go buy one.

Those 75 years were because we were too cheap to buy the troops something new.
__________________
'
"all my ammo is mostly-retired factory ammo"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:03 AM
RickB's Avatar
RickB RickB is offline
1911 Aficionado
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 17,194
I have a POS from 1918, and a POS from 1942, and they're better guns than what often passes for a 1911 in today's market. Of course, it's not fair to compare a $20 pistol of the past to one that costs $600-$1000 today . . .
__________________
If you're not shooting you should be moving. If you're not moving you should be reloading. If you're not shooting, moving, or reloading, you should be taping or picking brass. - Z.C.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 PM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved