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  #1  
Old 03-13-2011, 11:18 AM
DeerNut DeerNut is offline
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1911 slide drop on reload




I've been shooting 1911s for years (Kimber, Colt, DW) and in IDPA for about 3 yrs. Recently I bought an M&P Pro9 for a change of pace because I liked the gun. I was impressed that a friends automatically dropped the slide and chambered a round when you did a slidelock reload. After 2 matches I have found that it does this 100% of the time outside of the match and 0% of the time during the match (slide drops on an empty chamber). I can't figure it out, but that's not my question. I'm running back to my 1911s. I love my Kimber Eclipse and just got a trigger job and FO front sight.

Question: I have talked to people and thought I read on-line that some people have successfully altered their slide stop to drop the slide and chamber a round on a 1911 from a slidelock reload. I can't find anything on this from inside or outside this forum. Any help? Is this possible?

Thanks, JIM
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2011, 02:47 AM
mcmikecruz1 mcmikecruz1 is offline
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http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=307400
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2011, 12:31 AM
DeerNut DeerNut is offline
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but for a 1911?

None of my 1911's do it. Not sure how you slam a mag in at a 45 degree angle

The lack of any info from this forum on how to alter a slide stop on a 1911s to automatically chamber the first round of a new mag leads me to believe it can't be done consistently. Surely lots of competition shooters would be doing it and many would know all about it (complete with photos).

I don't really understand how an upward pressure of the second round in the mag can pull the slidestop down and out of the way of the slide anyway.

JIM
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:41 AM
BDHershey BDHershey is offline
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It is physics and has more to do with the inertia of the pistol or really the slide stop and how the force of seating the mag is transfered to the pistol during reload.

This is easiest to accomplish on polymer framed pistols like your friends M&P.

As the mag is seated many shooters will "seat through the mag" like following through with a punch, seating the mag and continuing the motion of the front corner of the magwell. You aren't seating the mag at a 45 deg angle, but the motion of your hand is at a 45 deg angle to the magwell.

Often this transference of force from the shooters hand at an angle causes the frame of the pistol to move away enough, fast enough, that its movement is enough to overcome the force of the mag spring. This is aided at least in the Glock (unsure of the M&P) by the spring that tensions the slide stop holding it in the down position when not engaged. This drops the slide.

This, as you have witnessed, is an unreliable means of chambering a round during reloads. While you can pretty consistently make the slide drop, it doesn't always chamber a round. I would recommend AGAINST using this technique and you will not find it officially taught many places. You'll fight how you train, and if you train/practice/compete this way, you may find yourself with a click instead of a bang if you need to reload during a fight.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:31 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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The slide closing upon insertion of a new mag is something I have experienced in duty style double column magazine pistols but never in a 1911. It would seem to me, that to modify a 1911 for this purpose might well lead to other problems. I will certainly be interested in seeing where this thread goes from here.
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2011, 06:57 PM
DeerNut DeerNut is offline
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"just peek down in the little hole....."

I thought it was a neat feature when I saw it happen consistently on my friends. The ergonomics are great on the M&P and so thumbing the slide stop manually is easy and can be done without shifting your strong hand grip or doing it with the other hand. But, a new mag drops the slide 100% of the time and only sometimes chambers a round. That means I have no idea if I have a round in the chamber when I push it back out to the target. If I increased my awareness, I could probably feel if it chambered or not, but that's no way to run a match gun. I'd love for it to do one or the other .....consistantly.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:35 PM
honda01 honda01 is offline
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My HK USP did it. I talked to a few LE officers that were also ammorers and was told that the USP was designed to do that. Not something you want to find out when you least expect it. Anyhow, it was a feature that was requested by the Teams when you only have to reload with one hand. The idea was the gun was shot to slide lock..then placed between your legs, and your working hand placed the mag in the gun...you would then use your knee to "slam" the mag home and the gun goes into battery. At least that is what a first generation Gulf Vet told me. For what its worth.
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  #8  
Old 03-17-2011, 02:00 AM
mcmikecruz1 mcmikecruz1 is offline
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hk p8 pistol was built like that but no other sinse the germen military didn't want it , it can be made to happen with most modern hand guns because they have some sort of downward spring tension on the release
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  #9  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:08 AM
chuntaro chuntaro is offline
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My usp compact and my sig 229 do it and chamber a round everytime. I do not think I will try these old knees though.
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:53 AM
Ronbo256 Ronbo256 is offline
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I can get my Glock 22 to do this and chamber a round. I'd rather drop the slide myself though. The first time it happened, it nearly scared me to death, I wasn't expecting the slide to drop without me hitting the slide stop.
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:30 PM
log man log man is offline
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For the 1911, the answer lies in how it works. The empty mag follower pushes the slide stop up, and catches the slide, but once removed, and a fresh mag inserted the slide stop is only held in place by the recoil spring pushing the slide against it. When you pull the slide back in a 1911, without a buff to hamper this, the front of the slide notch cams the stop down, and releases the slide to close. To amplify this action the slide stop lug that locks in the slide notch can be welded and fitted to require very little slide movement to force it down. Now the action of slamming in a full mag will jostle the slide, and that will cause the slide stop to be bumped down and the slide will close. Auto.

LOG
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:51 PM
guysmith guysmith is offline
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Thanks Logman I couldn't have explained it better, even if I was inclined to do so. My Mitchell auto releases the slide, but I tuned it to do it. Very dicey to do correctly. First time I tried I screwed up 2 slide stops before getting it right. I haven't done the trick to my Champion yet, I'm still working on getting other things done before I go there.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2011, 08:30 PM
AR10Tfan AR10Tfan is offline
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Deer Nut;
The Magpull defensive shooting trainning series also states that 1911's will do this, I have three 1911's and have yet to get one of them to do this, now I also have a Beretta 92 and a Khar K-9 and it's no problem to get the slide to drop into battery and chamber a round upon reload, so I guess it's luck of the draw.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2011, 08:36 PM
fightin14 fightin14 is offline
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My glock 22, 23, and 27 do it. The 22 does in 100% of the time the 23 did it (before getting ride of it) almost always, and the 27 is damn(can't remember the last time it didn't) near every time. I am curious if i was gentle if it would do it? I slam the mag to make sure it locks in place and the slide moves to battery with a fresh round in the pipe.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2011, 10:32 PM
Ronbo256 Ronbo256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightin14 View Post
My glock 22, 23, and 27 do it. The 22 does in 100% of the time the 23 did it (before getting ride of it) almost always, and the 27 is damn(can't remember the last time it didn't) near every time. I am curious if i was gentle if it would do it? I slam the mag to make sure it locks in place and the slide moves to battery with a fresh round in the pipe.
If I gently insert a magazine in my Glock with the slide locked back it will not close the slide, I have to sharply rap the bottom of the mag with my palm to get the slide to close
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2011, 11:05 PM
GoBow GoBow is offline
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Our M&Ps will often drop the slide on a reload. We still teach tap rack bang, just in case.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2011, 04:27 PM
fightin14 fightin14 is offline
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After about a year of racking it again I stopped and I have never had a problem with it not chambering a fresh round. With that said tomorrow I could go to the range and it not work.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2011, 06:47 AM
SWAT OPS SWAT OPS is offline
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mag change = auto slide drop w/ round

SigSauer P226 Blackwater Tactical 9mm; upon inserting a full 20 round mag my working gun will consistently grab a round and close the slide from slide lock position. This is so consistent I believed it was an awesome new feature. I take advantage of it at as many shooting events as I can. I have had a Sig Amourer determine the weapon is safe and secure in battery - it's still all about the trigger.
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