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  #1  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Undersize Die




Hello all. At a recent trip to the range I was having occasional feed issues with my Gold Cup Trophy .45 not fully chambering a live round. A respected competition shooter at the club said to check my press to make sure the shell holder is kissing the sizing die and when I did I found a slight gap. He also recommended getting an undersize die to use which I plan to order. Has anyone had experience using an undersize die? I am not new to reloading but for some reason never heard of one of these dies.

By the way, I am shooting Mag Tech brass with 200 LSWC over 5.1 gr of W 231.

Thanks.

Last edited by eagle1889; 02-27-2011 at 09:00 PM. Reason: typo
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:05 PM
SW CQB 45 SW CQB 45 is offline
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what was your overall length?

was your brass previously shoot through a glock?

I have never had an instance where I needed an undersized die and have alot of glocked brass with my Kart barreled Colt and S/A MC Operator.
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:15 PM
1911Collector 1911Collector is offline
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I use them for with all of my straight walled cases: .45 Auto, 9mm Luger, 38 Super Auto, .40 S&W, and 38 Special. However, what it sounds like you need is a bulge buster which when used will resize the last 1/16 inch of the case head.

Also, make sure to use a case gage to check whether the finished round will chamber or not. You can pull either the barrel from the GCT or use one from EGW or Wilson to check.

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  #4  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:16 PM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
what was your overall length?

was your brass previously shoot through a glock?

I have never had an instance where I needed an undersized die and have alot of glocked brass with my Kart barreled Colt and S/A MC Operator.
The brass was never shot through a Glock or any other gun. OAL was 1.250.
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  #5  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:34 PM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Collector View Post
I use them for with all of my straight walled cases: .45 Auto, 9mm Luger, 38 Super Auto, .40 S&W, and 38 Special. However, what it sounds like you need is a bulge buster which when used will resize the last 1/16 inch of the case head.

Also, make sure to use a case gage to check whether the finished round will chamber or not. You can pull either the barrel from the GCT or use one from EGW or Wilson to check.

-1911Collector
Thanks, I'll check one of those out. I did pull the barrel when I was working up a load for the gun but I didn't check every single round. This was happening only once every other clip or so.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Quote:
The brass was never shot through a Glock or any other gun.
No, and I sincerely doubt that's the problem. The adjustment of your die might be tighter, but I don't think that's the issue. Your 'respected competition shooter' might have given you a red herring. Set the notion of undersize die or bulge buster aside for now. I don't think that will help you.
Quote:
OAL was 1.250.
For many bullets, 1.250 is a good place to start, but at that OAL many semiwadcutters hit the rifling with the shoulder of the bullet. That's probably why the slide didn't go fully into battery.

Seat deeper, take out the barrel and use it as a gauge. Drop the rounds into the chamber and check for proper chambering. Should make a nice 'plunk' when the case mouth hits the end of the chamber. If the bullet hits the rifling, it's more of a soft thump.

Try seating deeper and report back to us. If that fixes the problem, stop listening to 'respected competition shooters'.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2011, 07:11 AM
Cowboy1629 Cowboy1629 is offline
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The only caliber I have to use a U-die on is 9mm because the bullet will slide down into the case easily with some bullet/case combinations. Mine haven't been shot by Glocks either and my die was adjusted correctly.

Before buying a U-die take some of your loaded rounds and push the bullet against your bench and see if it changes your COL. It is the case wall that holds the bullet in place and not the crimp so don't try crimping harder around the bullet if it does slide. If they slide easily into the case that is usually a sign the either the rounds are slightly undersized, the case isn't getting sized properly, or the case wall thickness is thin allowing the ID of the case to be too big even though the OD is sized correctly. If you run into that, that's where a u-die will help.

I would also buy the go/no go gauge just for a quick check from time to time.
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2011, 07:39 AM
Chuckdog Chuckdog is offline
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My Dan Wesson's have chambers that aren't .452 friendly. If you're shooting cast bullets, many are .452 diameter and will not reliably come to full battery. If I missed this already being covered, I apologize as I'm at work and in a hurry. Chuckdog
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2011, 08:42 AM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
No, and I sincerely doubt that's the problem. The adjustment of your die might be tighter, but I don't think that's the issue. Your 'respected competition shooter' might have given you a red herring. Set the notion of undersize die or bulge buster aside for now. I don't think that will help you.
For many bullets, 1.250 is a good place to start, but at that OAL many semiwadcutters hit the rifling with the shoulder of the bullet. That's probably why the slide didn't go fully into battery.

Seat deeper, take out the barrel and use it as a gauge. Drop the rounds into the chamber and check for proper chambering. Should make a nice 'plunk' when the case mouth hits the end of the chamber. If the bullet hits the rifling, it's more of a soft thump.

Try seating deeper and report back to us. If that fixes the problem, stop listening to 'respected competition shooters'.
Thanks for the feedback. The guy at the range also said to use the barrel of the gun to tell me what it likes as far as OAL. He said start at 1.260 and work backwards until it falls in very easily. Being I'm at 1.250 already I will leave it there and heed your advice.
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2011, 08:43 AM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckdog View Post
My Dan Wesson's have chambers that aren't .452 friendly. If you're shooting cast bullets, many are .452 diameter and will not reliably come to full battery. If I missed this already being covered, I apologize as I'm at work and in a hurry. Chuckdog
No, that was not covered. Thank you and everyone else for the advice.

Last edited by eagle1889; 02-28-2011 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2011, 09:42 AM
rocice rocice is offline
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Sounds like the OAL is too long for the SWC, take a look at this link
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=61658
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:45 AM
eagle1889 eagle1889 is offline
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Originally Posted by rocice View Post
Sounds like the OAL is too long for the SWC, take a look at this link
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=61658
Thanks. My loads do look like the one LSWC pictured with just barely part of the main body of the bullet protruding past the case.

I may seat my next batch a little deeper (within tolerance) though just to be safe after I give the rounds I've already loaded the barrel test again. What effect does seating deeper have on performance, if any? Could it affect accuracy or velocity?
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Seating deeper leaves less volume inside the case. It's like increasing the compression ratio in your hot rod engine. It increases thermal efficiency and gets more power for the same amount of fuel, but there's a limit. You want to avoid the point that it detonates wildly. Same with cartridges and engines.

But if you're not near max load, it won't make enough difference to matter.
You're only looking to seat 0.010 to 0.020 deeper. Nothing major.

So check your loads against your published data. If you're near max, back off a 1/10 grain on your powder. If you're not near max, just seat a bit deeper and see how that works.



[I don't know what load data you use, but just my conjecture: If you're not near max load and your OAL is 1.250" now, seat one at 1.240" and one at 1.230" and do the chamber check in your barrel. If it plunks down good, you just solved your problem. I seat semiwadcutters with just a bit of the shoulder showing above the case mouth. That generally gives me 1.230 to 1.250 depending upon the actual bullet profile. Different molds stick that nose out a little, so measuring OAL can be deceiving with a swc design. ]
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Black wallnut Black wallnut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle1889 View Post
What effect does seating deeper have on performance, if any? Could it affect accuracy or velocity?
It can effect both. Shorter means less internal volume which means everything else equal more pressure. Higher pressure = higher velocity. Accuracy is not so easy to predict; your gun may like the shorter combonation or it may not. If not try a different powder or bullet or charge or etc.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2011, 06:03 PM
MoneyMaker MoneyMaker is offline
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maybe not taper cripmed correctly?With lead bullets it seems i have to use the Lee factory crimp die to get them rascals back in tolerance
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