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  #1  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:41 AM
SSmokin99 SSmokin99 is offline
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.45 vs .45 ACP




Is there a difference?
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:43 AM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is online now
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Most of the time when folks refer to .45 they mean .45 ACP however there is a .45 GAP and .45 Long Colt which are completely different rounds. ACP is by far the most popular and common. For a 1911, it's .45 ACP.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:53 AM
SSmokin99 SSmokin99 is offline
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I have PMC Bronze for my 1911. Are those ACP? What does ACP mean?
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:55 AM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is online now
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Yes. .45 ACP. Stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:59 AM
SSmokin99 SSmokin99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyRod View Post
Yes. .45 ACP. Stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP
Thanks!

Can anyone tell me all the bullets that go from weakest to strongest? I'm guessing .22 would be the weakest.
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2011, 08:32 AM
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DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSmokin99 View Post
Thanks!

Can anyone tell me all the bullets that go from weakest to strongest? I'm guessing .22 would be the weakest.
in general:

.22 Short
.22 Long
.17 HMR
.22 Long Rifle
.22 Magnum
.25
.32
.380
9mm
.38 Spl - R
9mm +P
.38 Spcl +P -R
9x21mm
9x19 +p+
.40 Smith
.45 ACP
.45 ACP +P
.45 Colt - R
.44 Special - R
.357Sig
.38 Super
10mm
.400 Corbon
.45 Colt +P
9x23mm
.357 Mag - R/DE
10mm Norma Listing as a separate loading of 10mm because modern 10mm is loaded to lower pressure and velocity than original design.
.41 Mag - R
.44 Mag - R/DE
.45 Super
.460 Roland
.50 AE - DE
.454 Casull - R
.480 Ruger - R
.460 Smith and Wesson - R
.500 Smith and Wesson - R

R designates a Revolver load
DE designates Desert Eagle

This list is an approximation. I am leaving out dozens of load variations, not account for the "Except when..." cases, and generally pulling a lineup out of my sleep-deprived, coffee-deprived behind. It's generally true, however.

Edit: Added .357Sig, .400 Corbon and .17 HMR. I am not going to catalogue rifle cartridges, because this forum is not the place for it, and i'm not cataloguing every single variation and wildcat load out there.
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Last edited by DeltaKilo; 02-08-2011 at 01:31 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2011, 11:09 AM
Dbltapster Dbltapster is offline
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I'll add this bit for clarification...

45 ACP is the same as 45 "Auto".

Lots of folks will call it Auto...short for ACP.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Gunshine Gunshine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaKilo View Post
in general:

.22 Short
.22 Long
.22 Long Rifle
.22 Magnum
.25
.32
.380
9mm
.38 Spl - R
9mm +P
.38 Spcl +P -R
.38 Super
9x21mm
.40 Smith
.45 ACP
.45 ACP +P
.45 Colt - R
.44 Special - R
10mm
.45 Colt +P
9x23mm
.357 Mag - R/DE
.41 Mag - R
.44 Mag - R/DE
.45 Super
.460 Roland
.50 AE - DE
.454 Casull - R
.480 Ruger - R
.460 Smith and Wesson - R
.500 Smith and Wesson - R

R designates a Revolver load
DE designates Desert Eagle

This list is an approximation. I am leaving out dozens of load variations, not account for the "Except when..." cases, and generally pulling a lineup out of my sleep-deprived, coffee-deprived behind. It's generally true, however.
Actually it's a pretty good list your sleep deprived hinney came up with.
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbltapster View Post
I'll add this bit for clarification...

45 ACP is the same as 45 "Auto".

Lots of folks will call it Auto...short for ACP.
not to be confused with .45 Auto Rim.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2011, 11:52 AM
betterlate111 betterlate111 is offline
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and...

Hiney not to be confused with hinney
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:21 PM
NonPCnraRN NonPCnraRN is offline
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Hiney not to be confused with hinney
Or German beer in a green bottle. A nice cold Bud sounds good. A nice cold Hiney sounds like my wifes butt when she wants to cuddle to keep warm.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Robert101 Robert101 is offline
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Oh boy, I'm asking for it now. DeltaK, I'm going to suggest a revision to your listing of loads in only one small group:

OK
.45 Colt +P
9x23mm
.357 Mag - R/DE
10MM
OK 41 Mag then, OK on rest as well

I realize that bullet weight and velocity and lb-ft of energy are different for various bullet weights but this is my order based on lethality.

Robert
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Nick A Nick A is offline
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Hello, SSmokin99.
Quote:
all the bullets that go from weakest to strongest
Actually, the 'bullet' is just the projectile.
That's the part that flies down the barrel toward the target.
The 'cartridge' is the whole assembly, fully loaded and ready to shoot.
'Caliber' is the diameter of the bore, although we sometimes use that word to distinguish among different cartridge types.

Proper question: "Can someone rank order all the common pistol cartridges, from weakest to strongest?"

DeltaKilo, did great, but left out all the rifle cartridges.

Also, I didn't see 357Sig. Or the 17 rimfires. And currently there are several 32 caliber cartridges, some for auto pistols and some for revolvers. 5.7x28 for the FN pistols. Still popular among the Cowboy crowd are 44-40 and other old timers.
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  #14  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:58 PM
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DeltaKilo DeltaKilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
Hello, SSmokin99.
Actually, the 'bullet' is just the projectile.
That's the part that flies down the barrel toward the target.
The 'cartridge' is the whole assembly, fully loaded and ready to shoot.
'Caliber' is the diameter of the bore, although we sometimes use that word to distinguish among different cartridge types.

Proper question: "Can someone rank order all the common pistol cartridges, from weakest to strongest?"

DeltaKilo, did great, but left out all the rifle cartridges.

Also, I didn't see 357Sig. Or the 17 rimfires. And currently there are several 32 caliber cartridges, some for auto pistols and some for revolvers. 5.7x28 for the FN pistols. Still popular among the Cowboy crowd are 44-40 and other old timers.
Because 5.7x28 is an abortion of a rifle cartridge that had a gimmicky handgun made for it with less overall effectiveness than the .22 Magnum, I'm very pointedly choosing to leave it off the list. You'll also note the lack of the 9x18 Makarov, the 7.62x25 Tokarev, and other obscure cartridges.

I've updated the list with the others.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:11 PM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick A View Post
DeltaKilo, did great, but left out all the rifle cartridges.
I was going to say that too but I didn't want him to tell me to F.O.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:14 PM
RapidFire101 RapidFire101 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyRod View Post
.45 Long Colt
I politely disagree. .45 Long Colt is not an actual cartridge
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:19 PM
Planemech Planemech is offline
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.38 Super is in the wrong place on the list as are, .357 Sig, 9x23 and 10mm. The .38 Super is better than 9x19 +P or +P+, it's right there with .357 Sig below 9x23 which is below 10mm.

Still a fair list.
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Planemech View Post
.38 Super is in the wrong place on the list as are, .357 Sig, 9x23 and 10mm. The .38 Super is better than 9x19 +P or +P+, it's right there with .357 Sig below 9x23 which is below 10mm.

Still a fair list.
List updated.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert101 View Post
Oh boy, I'm asking for it now. DeltaK, I'm going to suggest a revision to your listing of loads in only one small group:

OK
.45 Colt +P
9x23mm
.357 Mag - R/DE
10MM
OK 41 Mag then, OK on rest as well

I realize that bullet weight and velocity and lb-ft of energy are different for various bullet weights but this is my order based on lethality.

Robert
Lethality as gauged by what? Considering that in defensive shootings, actual fatalities are on the order of 12% or less, what do you base this on?

Also, which version of 10mm? the 10mm as it is loaded now? Or 10mm as it was originally loaded?
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Planemech View Post
.38 Super is in the wrong place on the list as are, .357 Sig, 9x23 and 10mm. The .38 Super is better than 9x19 +P or +P+, it's right there with .357 Sig below 9x23 which is below 10mm.

Still a fair list.
Again, 10mm as it was originally designed, or 10mm as it is now? The loads being produced now are far lower on velocity and pressure than 10mm as it originally was designed.
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:29 PM
DirtyRod DirtyRod is online now
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Originally Posted by RapidFire101 View Post
I politely disagree. .45 Long Colt is not an actual cartridge
Really?!? I stand corrected. I've seen a few boxes marked .45 Colt and a few articles describing that cartridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Long_Colt
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:32 PM
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As stated before, there are literally a hundred or more various calibers for rifles and variations on calibers, and categorizing them would produce no less than three lists, based on velocity, energy, sectional density, etc. I am NOT going to try and list every single gorramn load for rifles.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtyRod View Post
Really?!? I stand corrected. I've seen a few boxes marked .45 Colt and a few articles describing that cartridge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Long_Colt
Yes, really. .45 Long Colt doesn't actually exist. There exists a .45 Short Colt and .45 Colt.

There's also .38 Colt, .32 Smith and Wesson, and maybe a dozen other variations on these calibers, but they are not in modern use.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:00 PM
Robert101 Robert101 is offline
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deltaK,
To my hierarchy that placed the 10MM below (meaning more potent) than the .357 Mag., my argument is based upon both reloading data from several sources such as Leeís Reloading Manual 7th Addition, and Hornady which seem to deliver a 200 grain slug with higher velocity that the .357 Mag counterpart. I will certainly concede reliable published data over my interpretative conclusion of both cartridges. I always enjoy reading your responses that include much data on the various topics, hence why I was compelled to post a trivial argument to your posting.

Another question on topic, is basically, how old is the data that you used for the potency of the various handgun cartridges? Iím really not aware of a whole lot of data on the 10MM as it was not in service for very long. Therefore, it seems hard to compare a 10MM to the .357 or 45 due to their extended period in law enforcement and the military. I guess now the 40 caliber has been studied extensively as well.

Thanks for all the valuable information you have given us in the past.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:07 PM
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deltaK,
To my hierarchy that placed the 10MM below (meaning more potent) than the .357 Mag., my argument is based upon both reloading data from several sources such as Leeís Reloading Manual 7th Addition, and Hornady which seem to deliver a 200 grain slug with higher velocity that the .357 Mag counterpart. I will certainly concede reliable published data over my interpretative conclusion of both cartridges. I always enjoy reading your responses that include much data on the various topics, hence why I was compelled to post a trivial argument to your posting.

Another question on topic, is basically, how old is the data that you used for the potency of the various handgun cartridges? Iím really not aware of a whole lot of data on the 10MM as it was not in service for very long. Therefore, it seems hard to compare a 10MM to the .357 or 45 due to their extended period in law enforcement and the military. I guess now the 40 caliber has been studied extensively as well.

Thanks for all the valuable information you have given us in the past.
I basically ranked them as best I could based on velocity and effectiveness.

In the "butter zone" of 9mm to .45 ACP, from an effectiveness standpoint, no one caliber stands out significantly over the others. If we were to discuss sectional density, .40 Smith would be ahead of the .45 ACP. If by pressure, then likewise, if by velocity, 9mm would be higher, etc. it's mostly arbitrary and not based on any scientific data.

In point of fact, if this were a list based on scientific data alone, then several calibers would have to be moved to be on the same line as they are essentially equal. Also, it would have to be agreed upon exactly which load variation we were talking about.

10mm is a case in point. Most commercial loads for this now come out at around 1200 FPS. IIRC, the original Norma load was closer to 1500-1600 FPS.

The 10mm was reduced in power due to its recoil, and was then shortened to make the .40 Smith as the full-length 10mm grip size, being similar to the .45 ACP, was more than some with smaller hands could comfortably utilize.

So, while load data exists for the 10mm to push it to original specs, most commercial loads would have it closer to the 40/.45 ACP.
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