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  #1  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:11 AM
BDHES BDHES is offline
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5 Year Old Killed By Pellet Gun




I wouldn't have thought something like this possible, but proves the point that no matter the caliber, things that shoot should never be considered "toys". An artery hit perhaps? Prayers for all involved in this. I can't even imagine the pain, being the father of a 5 year old myself.

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BD



http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...lt1grUQQQ.cspx

5-year-old killed in pellet air rifle shooting

Last Update: 9:18 am

FREER, Texas (AP) -- Police in Freer say a 5-year-old girl died after accidentally being struck by a pellet fired from an air rifle.

Police say a 10-year-old male relative of the victim allegedly fired the shot. Police Chief Roy Salazar says Sarah Salinas died Wednesday after being shot in the chest. She was pronounced dead at a hospital in Alice.

Investigator Ric Ortiz with the Nueces County Medical Examiner's Office says the cause of death is a pellet wound penetrating the chest.

Child Protective Services has been notified.

Freer is 80 miles west of Corpus Christi.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:19 AM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Originally Posted by BDHES View Post
I wouldn't have thought something like this possible, but proves the point that no matter the caliber, things that shoot should never be considered "toys". An artery hit perhaps? Prayers for all involved in this. I can't even imagine the pain, being the father of a 5 year old myself.

Thanks,
BD



http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...lt1grUQQQ.cspx

5-year-old killed in pellet air rifle shooting

Last Update: 9:18 am

FREER, Texas (AP) -- Police in Freer say a 5-year-old girl died after accidentally being struck by a pellet fired from an air rifle.

Police say a 10-year-old male relative of the victim allegedly fired the shot. Police Chief Roy Salazar says Sarah Salinas died Wednesday after being shot in the chest. She was pronounced dead at a hospital in Alice.

Investigator Ric Ortiz with the Nueces County Medical Examiner's Office says the cause of death is a pellet wound penetrating the chest.

Child Protective Services has been notified.

Freer is 80 miles west of Corpus Christi.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

From the story:

"Protective services notified". My question is ..... WHY?
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Brian48 Brian48 is offline
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As father of two, it absolutely breaks my heart to hear stuff like this. I guess this is a good reminder that some air guns can still approach near .22lr power levels and should be treated with respect. It's just that this is the first time I've ever heard of a human fatality with one.
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:33 AM
crabbybum crabbybum is offline
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Many many years ago in one of the books I used to get, something like "Cartridges of the World" there was an article by either a LEO or coroner about a toddler who was killed by his slightly older brother with a pellet gun. In that case, lack of parental supervision was the only issue. The parents paid for it with the loss of their child.

What happened was the toddler walked into the line of fire and the pellet entered under the arm and hit the heart. Small child with no shirt on = very soft and thin target. The sibling who pulled the trigger was fixating on the sights, never saw his brother walk in front of him until it was too late.

Pellet guns aren't toys.

Too many shooters forget that all guns are potentially deadly items. People get complacent because we use them for sport and recreation. Much like many motor vehicle drivers fail to understand their sedan or SUV is a deadly weapon.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:59 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4finny View Post
From the story:

"Protective services notified". My question is ..... WHY?
Because some idiot permitted a 10-yr-old to use a pellet rifle to kill a 5-yr-old. Sounds reasonable to me.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:38 PM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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I don't want to nit pick but the pellet gun did not kill the child, The 10 year old and the father that allowed the 10 year old to play with the gun killed her.

I don't blame the 10 year old as much as I blame the father,. When I was a kid I had a pellet gun that also shot steel BBs. The BBs could go through both side of a steel pail. My father taught me gun safety and I knew the rules before I was allowed to handle the gun without supervision
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:49 PM
7east 7east is offline
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This is a tragedy. I'll also never underestimate a pellet gun again after having been shot with one when I was a teenager. It went through about two inches of meat in my forearm.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:53 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
Because some idiot permitted a 10-yr-old to use a pellet rifle to kill a 5-yr-old. Sounds reasonable to me.
You never played with a pellet gun or a bb gun when you were 10 years old? Now let me further qualify my question .... if you read the article, no where in the article does it say that the boy shot the little girl intentionally. This may have been an accident, we do not know.

Now, is it "reasonable" that the social engineers at CPS gets called over this and the entire family is now potentially broken apart over this? Do the other children in the family now have to go to foster parents for more emotional and possible physical damage to be done? If the child was known to be abusive, or mentally impaired and the parents left him to his own devices with this air rifle, by all means, CPS may have to get involved.

It just seems to me that "CPS was notified" is the typical kneejerk reaction nowadays. Riddle me this batman, how many ND's or AD's have been reported on these forums in people's homes? I can think of several. Using "reasonable" logic (as some put it), maybe some of these cases require CPS to be notified too.

Until the entire story is known, I'm not ready for the progressive socialists to come marching in to split up families just yet.

Fin
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Last edited by M4finny; 08-20-2010 at 01:01 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:58 PM
silvercorvette silvercorvette is offline
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Originally Posted by M4finny View Post
You never played with a pellet gun or a bb gun when you were 10 years old?
I was probably 12 years old when I got my own BB gun but I was taught to treat it like a real gun.
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2010, 01:09 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Originally Posted by silvercorvette View Post
I was probably 12 years old when I got my own BB gun but I was taught to treat it like a real gun.
Good for you, me too. But, I was addressing my question to another poster here. And yet, we still do not know the entire story. This is what was linked:

FREER, Texas (AP) -- Police in Freer say a 5-year-old girl died after accidentally being struck by a pellet fired from an air rifle.

Police say a 10-year-old male relative of the victim allegedly fired the shot. Police Chief Roy Salazar says Sarah Salinas died Wednesday after being shot in the chest. She was pronounced dead at a hospital in Alice.

Investigator Ric Ortiz with the Nueces County Medical Examiner's Office says the cause of death is a pellet wound penetrating the chest.

Child Protective Services has been notified.

Freer is 80 miles west of Corpus Christi.

So again, did the little girl run in front of a boy who was about to fire an air rifle in an appropriate manner? We do not know, do we? the use of the word "Accidentally" does provide some room for all of us to pause and reflect before calling in the social engineers IMHO.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:20 PM
ProCarryNAustin ProCarryNAustin is offline
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"accidentally being struck" is probably being used to relate the idea that the 10 year old was not setting out to intentionally murder the 5 year old.

I would have to agree with others that CPS should have been called. CPS is not there to "rip the family apart". They are they to determine if there is a risk to the remaining children. A child is dead. Someone should look into it.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2010, 01:37 PM
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Higher-powered air rifles most certainly can kill. My old Daisy 880 is a pump-up pneumatic and can easily shoot right through a metal garbage can. Even a low-powered rifle like a Daisy Red Ryder can still potentially kill a small child if he/she is shot in the eye at point-blank range. The bone in the eye socket is wafer-thin, and a BB could easily penetrate to the brain.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:00 PM
mattra mattra is offline
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It's also very easy for some pellet rifles to puncture a lung. As a young child, I remember another child in the local community having that exact thing happen to them. It made most of the parents, rightly so, more aware of the fact that these were not toys to be handed out like candy.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:50 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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Originally Posted by ProCarryNAustin View Post
"accidentally being struck" is probably being used to relate the idea that the 10 year old was not setting out to intentionally murder the 5 year old.

I would have to agree with others that CPS should have been called. CPS is not there to "rip the family apart". They are they to determine if there is a risk to the remaining children. A child is dead. Someone should look into it.
Yes, I do know that a "child is dead", I read the article.
I believe the police are looking into it. And I am sure that the Prosecutors office will be looking into to it as well. Maybe we need to call the ATF in on this one after CPS is finished?

Has anyone here ever dealt with CPS staff? I can tell you that they have full authority to rip a family apart, all in the name of "the children". All I can say is this, if some of you quick to call the CPS have never dealt with them yourselves, I trust that you never have to. In most States, they have some authority that would make your head swim.
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Last edited by M4finny; 08-20-2010 at 02:52 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-20-2010, 02:54 PM
TJS500 TJS500 is offline
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I am with M4finny on this one.

Like Reagan said government is the problem.


Todd
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2010, 03:07 PM
ProCarryNAustin ProCarryNAustin is offline
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Originally Posted by M4finny View Post
Yes, I do know that a "child is dead", I read the article.
I believe the police are looking into it. And I am sure that the Prosecutors office will be looking into to it as well. Maybe we need to call the ATF in on this one after CPS is finished?

Has anyone here ever dealt with CPS staff? I can tell you that they have full authority to rip a family apart, all in the name of "the children". All I can say is this, if some of you quick to call the CPS have never dealt with them yourselves, I trust that you never have to. In most States, they have some authority that would make your head swim.
I have had someone I am very close to that had to deal with CPS. They conducted a fair investigation and let the family get back to their lives quickly. I was not making this a personal attack on you. Don't be so quick to get bent at me. The Prosecutor's office and police are experts in pursuing criminals, but I don't know anyone working for these agencies that are good at dealing with domestic investigations. ATF has none of those skills that I am aware of and suggesting that I would recommend that is not based on any part of my argument.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:15 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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I am with M4finny on this one.

Like Reagan said government is the problem.


Todd
But Todd! Some people think that the family is the problem here! I mean, what in the hell is a Father thinking? Letting his ten year old son play with (gasp!) guns? I can remember being told of boys being allowed to keep hunting rifles and shotguns in the broom closets at school. That way, they can go hunting on the way home.

Good for those who have had a brush with CPS and then, have been "allowed to get back to their lives quickly". I've worked for the government, they don't do anything "quickly".

I'm not so keen on "social workers" people. They are lower level educated social engineers in my book. They are the ones that help compile the BS stats for the CDC and the UN on any gun control efforts. Give them an inch, and you can bet they will take a mile.

YMMV

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Old 08-20-2010, 03:16 PM
M4finny M4finny is offline
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I have had someone I am very close to that had to deal with CPS. They conducted a fair investigation and let the family get back to their lives quickly. I was not making this a personal attack on you. Don't be so quick to get bent at me. The Prosecutor's office and police are experts in pursuing criminals, but I don't know anyone working for these agencies that are good at dealing with domestic investigations. ATF has none of those skills that I am aware of and suggesting that I would recommend that is not based on any part of my argument.
OK, I retract my ATF comment. I still call BS on any intervention with any social engineers until AFTER the police and prosecutors get a crack.

No crime? Accident? Leave it alone. Enough damage done already. No need for the government to create more trauma.
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Last edited by M4finny; 08-20-2010 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:56 PM
Alden2 Alden2 is offline
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A .177 pellet weighs about the same as a .22 short (30 grains) and is about the same or higher velocity too. Some pellet guns can send that little slug out at between 900 and 1,100 fps. That's about like an average .22lr. It can be a lethal weapon.

This story proves that.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:56 PM
Wanna Warthog Wanna Warthog is offline
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About a year ago, I bought a Remington slide/pump action BB gun. It was advertised as having a top velocity of 750 FPS. With steel BB's, I could totally see it killing a child or elderly person.

There's an ADT Security sign staked in the ground at the corner of my yard. One evening at dusk I was out there plinking around and shot it several times. I thought that when I heard the "pop," it was the BB deflecting off of the plastic sign. I got a closer look the next day and, guess what? Yep. There were little round, clean holes all in it.

These aren't exactly "toys."
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:04 PM
wtfd661 wtfd661 is offline
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Prayer said for the girl and the family, what a terrible tragedy.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:36 PM
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The timing of this thread could have NOT come at a better time for me. As my wife and I were out test driving cars today, i get a call from my 9 yr old telling me that his older brother had shot him in the chest with a BB gun, he's ok, just a welt, but could have been bad. I made my 13 yr old sit down and read this thread, I layed it on thick of what could have happened, his eyes welled up with tears, BB gun now in the trash and a lesson learned, thanks for posting this and sorry for the little girls family.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:56 PM
slopemeno slopemeno is offline
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This shouldn't surprise anyone. People have been known to commit suicide with sub 12 ft/lb air rifles in the UK, where cartridge firearms aren't as available as they are in the US.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:10 PM
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The timing of this thread could have NOT come at a better time for me. As my wife and I were out test driving cars today, i get a call from my 9 yr old telling me that his older brother had shot him in the chest with a BB gun, he's ok, just a welt, but could have been bad. I made my 13 yr old sit down and read this thread, I layed it on thick of what could have happened, his eyes welled up with tears, BB gun now in the trash and a lesson learned, thanks for posting this and sorry for the little girls family.
I watched a YouTube video recently where two young kids were trying out an Airsoft full-auto Thompson, shooting at tin cans in the distance. At the very end of the video the one with the Thompson suddenly spins around and fires the rest of the magazine right into the other kid's leg, and he screams in pain (I guess that was supposed to be funny? ). Never underestimate the potential stupidity of kids when they're around guns, even BB guns or Airsoft.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:07 PM
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It just seems to me that "CPS was notified" is the typical kneejerk reaction nowadays. Riddle me this batman, how many ND's or AD's have been reported on these forums in people's homes? I can think of several. Using "reasonable" logic (as some put it), maybe some of these cases require CPS to be notified too.
It seems reasonable to me that CPS investigates. This incident involves the death of one child due to the actions of another child. Is it negligence on the part of the adults present? Probably. Is it negligence on the part of the child(ren)? Probably however they are no old enough to legally be responsible for themselves. Is it criminal negligence? Doubtful however nobody will know for sure until CPS completes their investigation and recommends action to the police and prosecutor. Why should CPS investigate? Because that's who the police call in to conduct these investigations.

Hopefully the investigation will prove that this was nothing more than a tragic accident and that it occurred despite the parents taking all the proper precautions. That's when this family will be able to start healing.
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