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  #1  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:53 AM
Echo Echo is offline
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Walther PPK problems




My new-to-guns-dad just bought a blued PPK in .380. The first time he took it out, he had a bunch of double feeds and a couple misfires.

I took it out today myself.

I now know that he had cleaned it before shooting it. With copper solvent. So I gave it a good cleaning with some #9 and oiled the hell out of it. While at the range, I figured out that he had been guiding the slide home when chambering a round. So the double feeds are no longer happening now. The gun was 100% today in regards to feeding, through 150 rounds (200, if you count the 50 he fired).

The only thing I can't figure out is the misfires. I think I got five or six misfires out of 150 rounds, and in each case, I eventually got the primer to light by pulling the trigger two or three times. The ammo is Sellier & Bellot, which I've never had problems with before.

So why the misfires? Does the firing pin spring need to be broken in more? Or could there be some cosmoline caught in the firing pin channel, making it a little sluggish? If that might be the case, how hard is it to take the firing pin and spring out? Or maybe the firing pin safety is sticking somehow?

My other question is....

That thing recoils like a SOB. I shot the gun around 7pm. It's now almost 1:40am, and the web of my hand is still red. In fact, blood was drawn. But I think that was from the sharp corner on the tang, not slide bite.

Can I lighten the recoil in any appreciable way by going from the stock 20# recoil spring to a 24#? Wolf makes one. I haven't seen any heavier mainsprings. If I did try the 24# spring, would the gun get beat up from slamming into battery so hard?

Also, anyone know of any aftermarket grips to soften up the tang? Hogue doesn't appear to make anything, and my dad doesn't seem into the Pachmayr idea.

BTW, that thing is pretty damned accurate for such a little guy. I guess because of the fixed barrel.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:47 AM
340six 340six is offline
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When you feed the fist round into the barrel just pull the slide back and let go! It will not damage the gun like it would with no bullet would dry
I had FTF with my new PPK/S called S&W they e-mailed me a tag to put on the box at fed-ex.
When it came back it eats anything. Factory Flat point WWB, reloaded 95fmj and cast 95's
The self cast 95's with Lars BAC{white Lable lube} give 1" groups at 35'-40' never tried it past that lenth.
No damage here to my hands webs. The finger rest magazine shoots well and the non finger rest one is for carry.
If you reload you can taylor the bullets to what you want from them.
The 95gr cast sized to .355 shoot better than the .356 You can buy plated at .355 with 3.0 of WW231 at OAL .570
They also shoot well in my .380 Colt Mustang {baby 1911}
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Last edited by 340six; 06-18-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:54 AM
69charger 69charger is offline
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Call Smith Wesson and see if it is a part of there recall. I got a new one and had all kinds of probs the first time out. Well I don't have that one anymore. I got hammer bit by that little guy too. Shouldn't bight the hand that feeds you.
Dave
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:55 AM
Echo Echo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340six View Post
When you feed the fist round into the barrel just pull the slide back and let go! It will not damage the gun like it would with no bullet would dry)
Yeah, I know. I had told him not to let the slide slam into battery on an empty chamber; I think he misunderstood me and thought he had to guide it home every time. At the range, I couldn't get it to double feed. From what he told me, I had thought a magazine spring was too tight and was presenting the next round too quick.

So I tried guiding the slide into battery, and got my double feed. I later confirmed with him that he was guiding the action shut.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:02 PM
nking nking is offline
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Originally Posted by 69charger View Post
Call Smith Wesson and see if it is a part of there recall. I got a new one and had all kinds of probs the first time out. Well I don't have that one anymore. I got hammer bit by that little guy too. Shouldn't bight the hand that feeds you.
Dave
How, pray tell, did the hammer bite your hand? The Smith & Wesson has a very extended tang on the back.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2010, 02:44 PM
VietVet USMC 1968 VietVet USMC 1968 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo View Post
My new-to-guns-dad just bought a blued PPK in .380. The first time he took it out, he had a bunch of double feeds and a couple misfires.

I took it out today myself.

I now know that he had cleaned it before shooting it. With copper solvent. So I gave it a good cleaning with some #9 and oiled the hell out of it. While at the range, I figured out that he had been guiding the slide home when chambering a round. So the double feeds are no longer happening now. The gun was 100% today in regards to feeding, through 150 rounds (200, if you count the 50 he fired).

The only thing I can't figure out is the misfires. I think I got five or six misfires out of 150 rounds, and in each case, I eventually got the primer to light by pulling the trigger two or three times. The ammo is Sellier & Bellot, which I've never had problems with before.

So why the misfires? Does the firing pin spring need to be broken in more? Or could there be some cosmoline caught in the firing pin channel, making it a little sluggish? If that might be the case, how hard is it to take the firing pin and spring out? Or maybe the firing pin safety is sticking somehow?

My other question is....

That thing recoils like a SOB. I shot the gun around 7pm. It's now almost 1:40am, and the web of my hand is still red. In fact, blood was drawn. But I think that was from the sharp corner on the tang, not slide bite.

Can I lighten the recoil in any appreciable way by going from the stock 20# recoil spring to a 24#? Wolf makes one. I haven't seen any heavier mainsprings. If I did try the 24# spring, would the gun get beat up from slamming into battery so hard?

Also, anyone know of any aftermarket grips to soften up the tang? Hogue doesn't appear to make anything, and my dad doesn't seem into the Pachmayr idea.

BTW, that thing is pretty damned accurate for such a little guy. I guess because of the fixed barrel.
Boy can I empathize with you and your Dad. I bought my PPK/S back in Sept. '09 and it was the second gun I ever owned. The first one came in just 2 weeks prior. I was an absolute NOOB to handguns when I bought them.
Maybe my experiences can help you guys because today the PPK/S is my 2nd choice for CC.
When I took it to the range for it's 1st event (it was a brand new gun) I had so many problems, including the drawing of blood, I thought I'd thrown away almost $1K. I would fire a round but the next one would jam in the chamber at a 45 degree angle. It happened over and over, I never got to fire two rounds consecutively. It was a disaster. I contacted S&W and they made arrangements to have me send it back to them for re-evaluation. I received a phone call from them after they got it and the guy wanted to explain to me what they did to it and it sounded great. While I had him on the phone I asked if there was anything that could be done to loosen up the safety switch. It was as tight as a crab's ass, my wife couldn't move it. He called me back and said they did the best they could with it.

So when I finally got it back about a month later I could tell immediately that the gun was different. The safety switch was much easier to use and I could tell they had polished the feed ramp. I cleaned her up and then off to the range. At this point I just knew that this gun needed a lot of lube, i'ts a very tight gun. So I used a very small drop of "MILITEC-1" gun grease, not the lube, on each of the rails and worked it in to the gun by doing about a hundred hand cycles. That wasn't easy my friend. The results were nothing less than outstanding. I have 5 mags and I fired through all five without a problem. I was so happy I couldn't believe it, it was a miracle.

The next issue is the tang. All I can say is that I put a set of Crimson Trace laser grips on mine, (IMO all .380's need a laser sight). I veered away from the conventional grip we've all been taught, I moved my hand down the frame until I found a spot where the tang didn't bite me, I loosened my grip a bit and that's how I avoid the bite. That's why I got the laser grips, I know that as long as I see that red dot I'm good to go. I have to say that this didn't happen in one range session, I forced myself to go to the range once a week for two months before I figured this all out.
The gun is very accurate and it just has that "007" coolness factor I don't think I'll ever sell it. I've got too much sweat equity in it.

The last item, I think, is AMMO. It's a lot of trail and error but here's what I discovered. My gun doesn't like S&B ball ammo at all. What it does like is the WWB, the flat nose or ball it doesn't care. For PP ammo I use a mix of PowR'Ball and Hornady Critical Defense. I think it's because they are almost ball ammo in design. All I know is that I have no feeding problems with it.
I really hope that you and your Dad can learn from my experiences. Also, I really hope that you and your Dad can work together on this project because I would have loved to had my 41 year old son share the experience with me. He says he's too busy?
Good Luck
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Last edited by VietVet USMC 1968; 06-18-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:30 PM
nking nking is offline
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All I can say is grip the pistol tighter. The tang digs in my hand slightly when I don't get a good grip practicing weak hand only.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:12 PM
halfmoonclip halfmoonclip is offline
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Blowback .380s are a rappy buggers, no way around it. Firing the same rounds in a (much lighter) Ruger LCP is a day at the beach by comparison; the little Ruger is locked breech.
The PP series was originally designed as a .32 ACP, and in that caliber they are sweethearts to shoot. The .380 version crowds the parameters of the package, which can lead to the gun misbehaving. In particular, the slide velocity is very high, and the slide strikes the frame at the end of its (energetic) stroke.
Sig 230, Mauser HSc, Walther PPK...in .380, doesn't matter, all have that same unpleasant feeling, like rapping a steel bar on a rock.
Moon
And for the guy in the back who just called me a wuss, I shoot an 11 oz .357, which REALLY is no fun.
M
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:32 PM
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Tim Burke Tim Burke is offline
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And for the guy in the back who just called me a wuss,
Wasn't me. I've commented many times about how unpleasant to shoot I find blowback 380s.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:21 PM
CelticWarrior13 CelticWarrior13 is offline
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I've owned 2 and used to carry them when I worked dope in the 80's. They would always cut the web of my hand (between thumb and forefinger) when shooting them...but they're still great pistols!
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:08 AM
halfmoonclip halfmoonclip is offline
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Wasn't me. I've commented many times about how unpleasant to shoot I find blowback 380s.
Hey, Tim, just joshing. I've had a ration of excrement about it from time to time, guys saying 'how can an effete Euro thing like a .380 kick...'.
I really do think it is the slide striking the frame that creates most of the effect; often wondered if there just isn't enough room for some kind of buffer.

Recoil aside, happy to hear that some are pleased with their Smith & Walthers...there are a bunch of unhappy campers over on the Walther board.
Personally I've had amazing service from S & W, and find it hard to believe Smith can't fix any problem with their guns.
Currently, SARCO is selling some police turn-in PPs in .32 ACP. PPs shoot straighter than the road to hell, work all the time, and have pleasant recoil characteristics. I snagged a pretty presentable example...they're Manurhin production from the late 50's/early '60s, for $275.
Moon
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:45 AM
nking nking is offline
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...Recoil aside, happy to hear that some are pleased with their Smith & Walthers...there are a bunch of unhappy campers over on the Walther board...
I am nothing but happy with both my blued Walther PPK and stainless PPK/s

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Old 06-19-2010, 03:34 PM
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I love my S&W PPK/S!
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:22 PM
doryman doryman is offline
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Ppk

how does your ppk work with hollow points ? i was told years ago that the ppk was designed back when only hardball was around. so they will only take hardball well. the sig 380 that i have will take hollow points all day long . but it doesn't like hardball. FTF.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:38 PM
nking nking is offline
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how does your ppk work with hollow points ? i was told years ago that the ppk was designed back when only hardball was around. so they will only take hardball well. the sig 380 that i have will take hollow points all day long . but it doesn't like hardball. FTF.
Smith & Wesson modified the feed ramp design. Both of mine feed hollow points with ease. The Interarms and original Walthers may have trouble with some hollow point ammunition.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:54 PM
Echo Echo is offline
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My dad hasn't put hollow points through it yet. So far she's only been fed Sellier & Bellot, which worked just fine aside from the misfires. For now, I'm assuming the misfires are a gun problem, not an ammo problem.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:01 PM
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I've never used S&B 380. I've used a lot of S&B 45 with no problems. I've used a fair amount of S&B 9mm- I get a lot of misfires with the 9mm unless the firing pin strike is hard.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:05 PM
Echo Echo is offline
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Interesting. Over the past few years, I've almost exclusively used S&B for shooting paper, and never had a misfire until that PPK. Glocks, 1911s, XDs, and lots of other Smiths, including the PK380. Never one misfire. I've seen it jam in a Glock and the PK380, but no misfires.
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:34 PM
nking nking is offline
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I forgot to mention that I S&B and WWB are the only .380 ball brands the local stores seem to carry. I've run hundreds of S&B rounds through the guns without a hitch.
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:42 PM
halfmoonclip halfmoonclip is offline
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Originally Posted by doryman View Post
how does your ppk work with hollow points ? i was told years ago that the ppk was designed back when only hardball was around. so they will only take hardball well. the sig 380 that i have will take hollow points all day long . but it doesn't like hardball. FTF.
My Interarms .32 PPK/s will run on lead reloads, FMJ and SilverTips. I couldn't get a now-departed .380 to run 100 % on much of anything.
Moon
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:27 PM
BlackBirdCD BlackBirdCD is offline
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There was a slight defect recently that has led to light-strikes from the firing pin. Some folks on the Walther forums disassembled theirs and noted that indeed some firing pins were short by a hair. S&W will rectify this if you contact them. Make sure that the recent recall for the hammer-block/safety mechanism has been addressed as well.

I absolutely love my Walther PPK/s, and yes they are much more snappy to fire than you'd think given the package shape and size. Love it, though, it shoots like a frickin' laser beam.
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Echo Echo is offline
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There was a slight defect recently that has led to light-strikes from the firing pin. Some folks on the Walther forums disassembled theirs and noted that indeed some firing pins were short by a hair. S&W will rectify this if you contact them. Make sure that the recent recall for the hammer-block/safety mechanism has been addressed as well.

I absolutely love my Walther PPK/s, and yes they are much more snappy to fire than you'd think given the package shape and size. Love it, though, it shoots like a frickin' laser beam.
Thanks, I'll check that out. I did poke around a Walther forum recently, but didn't find much.

I'm not sure if the defect you're talking about is consistent with the gun's problem though -- when I get a misfire, I got the round to light in every case by pulling through the trigger two or three more times. If the firing pin is too short to pop the primer every time, but is still making a dimple, than it seems like it wouldn't be able to reach the primer again. The part of the primer that the pin is striking would already by farther away from the pin itself.

Hope that makes sense.

Edit: Can you point me in the direction of the relevant thread on the Walther forum? Having a little trouble finding it.

Last edited by Echo; 06-19-2010 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:11 AM
halfmoonclip halfmoonclip is offline
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Echo, did you check out the hammer block? Are you familiar with the part; it sits just ahead of the hammer on the right side of the frame; when the trigger is pulled, it is cammed down into the frame and out of the way of the hammer.
Two things to try...
-examine the block itself under good light; look for signs of peening on the upper edge, indicating that the hammer has to brush it out of the way
-cock the gun and gently pull the trigger (put the slide back on) until the sear JUST breaks; don't move your finger any further, and ease the hammer down...do you feel any 'catch' as it goes forward?
Intermittent problems will drive ya' to drink...if it just would do it all the damn time, it would be easy to fix.
Good luck,
Moon
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:52 PM
BlackBirdCD BlackBirdCD is offline
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Edit: Can you point me in the direction of the relevant thread on the Walther forum? Having a little trouble finding it.
Found it!

http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13076
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:33 PM
gillandro gillandro is offline
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blank firing walther ppk issues

hello all.

a while back I bought a blank firing Walther ppk because I like the look of the gun but don't want to own a real one. i tend to field strip my guns to clean them when I first get them. I did everything the videos show to field strip a walther ppk and to reassemble it. I was having problems even before I fieldstripped as well. I was trying to cycle empty rounds through the gun as well but it would jam up a lot, with my baretta 92fs if I cycle the same empty cartridges it ejects them like it normally would. but the other issue I was having while attempting to fire after the fieldstrip was that the first time I shot a round off the slide jumped off the rails, the second problem I had is after I fixed it and shot it a second time the slide flew off completely.... any of these issues seem familiar to any of you enthusiasts? any info that you have would be most appreciated thanks.
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