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  #1  
Old 04-01-2010, 10:37 PM
Hammerhead6814 Hammerhead6814 is offline
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Llama 1911, so cheap I just have to ask.




Let me get this out of the way. I know Llama 1911's aren't viewed highly. In fact, many describe them as the one blemish on the 1911's history. Even the Ballista Mollinar (or however it's spelled) is more beloved than a Llama.

But at the price this guy is asking, well, it started turning gears. I mean, I'll never see a .45 ACP THIS CHEAP AGAIN. It couldn't be cheaper. If it was I'd have to choose between it and gas for my car for a month. Which means I'd be walking to work.

So here's the question:

Llama 1911's are said not to be "true" 1911's in that they aren't parts compatible with "true" 1911's. Is there anyway, using a dremel and a drill press (and other machinery) to remedy this? As in, if you put enough man-power into it, it could accept regular 1911 parts?

At the price I'd just buy it for the frame and build a real 1911 out of that. Can that be done?

Last edited by Hammerhead6814; 04-01-2010 at 10:41 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2010, 10:50 PM
SoTx SoTx is offline
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No way...not practical. There are too many design and dimensional differences.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2010, 11:10 PM
Hammerhead6814 Hammerhead6814 is offline
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How? Specifics man!

Remember, the price is right, and I'm willing to put a lot of time into this. The only thing I can't do is weld, forge, work with heat in any way.

At the very least I'm wondering if the frame can be used. I can finally put the Colt slide and trigger group that's laying around to use.

Last edited by Hammerhead6814; 04-01-2010 at 11:16 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2010, 11:18 PM
walter o walter o is offline
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I have 1 that runs OK but some parts are not interchangeable . I would buy a P.I.made 1911-RIA ,American Classic with them all parts are in spec to a 1911 and you can get service. LLama is out of business The frame holes are oversize
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2010, 11:36 PM
Hammerhead6814 Hammerhead6814 is offline
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Originally Posted by walter o View Post
I have 1 that runs OK but some parts are not interchangeable . I would buy a P.I.made 1911-RIA ,American Classic with them all parts are in spec to a 1911 and you can get service. LLama is out of business The frame holes are oversize
Any chance you have a list of what is and is not compatible?
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2010, 01:54 AM
CSH CSH is offline
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You can make anything with a dremel and drill press if you're skilled. You can also screw up a lot of stuff if you're not careful. My experience is with Llama Max-I's and Minimax's in 45 ACP. I don't know anything certain about other Llama models and won't attempt to comment on them. A lot of standard 5" 1911 parts will fit the Max-I. Notable exceptions are the extractor and grips. The grips are not interchangeable because the bushings are further apart on the Llama (you can find grip makers that make grips for Llama pistols). The Llama extractor is of the external variety. There are some other 1911s that are now using external extractors, but I wouldn't assume they are interchangeable or could even be made to fit. The Max-I also has a firing pin safety that is disabled by depressing the grip safety. The Colt Series 80 MKIV system is disengaged by the trigger, so I would assume with a fair amount of confidence that those parts couldn't interchange either.

Other parts, such as the thumb safety, barrel, magazines, barrel bushing, recoil system, etc, can be replaced with standard 1911 parts, though you might be required to do a little fitting. I have tinkered around with the Minimax and would pass on those because some of the parts are unique, namely the magazine, which is a common source of reliability problems. (Unless of course you can take it to the range and shoot enough to be certain it is 100% reliable)

Before I pulled the trigger and brought this pistol home, I would ask myself what I intend to use it for. If you want something to play around with and take to the range, and maybe practice some minor gunsmithing, I think you should buy it since the price is right. You'll learn a lot. If you're thinking this would make a cheap beginning for a custom pistol, then save your money and buy something better. It ain't a Colt or Springfield. Not by a long shot. I have a Max-I and enjoy it just the way it came from the factory. It's very reliable and accurate.

Do a search for Llama in this forum and you'll find quite a few posts (some of them from me).

Last edited by CSH; 04-02-2010 at 01:58 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2010, 03:58 PM
borntoraisehogs borntoraisehogs is offline
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Some members of my family have Llamas . Two of them because I bought them for the heck of it when they were on sale at a Payless Drug store for $239.00 . I gave them as gifts because I knew they would be used little , but enough to be familiar and to have some confidence in the reliability . It is a waste of time and money to buy an inexpensive Llama and then ruin the benefit of your bargain by trying to add improvements to make it something it never will be .
.
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2010, 05:56 PM
one_fast_ls1 one_fast_ls1 is offline
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If your getting it for "so cheap" why not turn around and sell it?

Than put the money toward a current project, or a 1911 that you don't have to monkey around with.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2010, 06:05 PM
partsproduction partsproduction is offline
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If it works why not just enjoy it? If it serves you well just honor it in return by laughing at anyone who puts it down. I have two Llama .380's one is in new condition and is very nice to shoot, the other shoots well but was put together by hacks.
http://www.m1911.org/technic13.htm
hi. this info might help some of your readers.

I own a pair of the llama .45. one is bone stock minus an aftermarket trigger. the other has an 'optima 2000 red dot sight,(by the way it is a great sighting system),aftermarket comp barrel,extended slide stop, extended safety, pachmyer rubber grips,full length guide rod,extended mag release,mag well,chip McCormick trigger,and Wolff springs'. all of this work I did my self, and then had it checked by a gunsmith. I have checked out there website for info on parts compatibility. I have found that most of the parts that they say won't work will, with very,very little work. most of this work can be done with a simple set of needle files. the thumb safety can be changed with use of the files in about 20 minutes. but you have to take the time to see what stops it from working. all most no metal has to be removed for it to work properly. the same goes for the slide stop. and the rear sight dovetail is the same as the colt mod.70. at least on the MAXI series.Barrels are the problem. however this can be solved. the extractor on the llama is placed in to the slide differently than the colt or other clones. to use aftermarket barrel's you need to notch the chamber where the extractor engages the round. easy enough to do with a file and, some time. if you don't do this the bullet WILL impact far to the left of you sights. this is due to barrel contact with the extractor. use caution not to remove to much metal on the side of the barrel!! I have not installed a ambi safety,yet but I have one on the way and will let you know how it goes. but if you do the work yourself have it checked out by a gunsmith please! go slow and check against the factory parts. by the way the optima 2000 is not being made anymore, but the "fire point ltd/ fire point sight" is the same. brownells has this sight. mainspring housings seem to be different the llama has a screw in pin as opposed to the colts pushed pin. I don't know if they will change. I hope this helps with some questions people have about the llama .45

be careful!!! have your work checked by a gunsmith please.

The following parts fit with no modifications required:

Extractor, recoil spring, guide rod, recoil spring plug, firing pin stop, magazine, hammer, hammer strut, hammer pin, safety, sear, sear pin.

The following parts fit with some modification:

Barrel bushing, barrel, firing pin, magazine catch, grip safety, slide stop, trigger, sear spring, disconnector.
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Last edited by partsproduction; 04-02-2010 at 06:09 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2010, 08:25 PM
CSH CSH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsproduction View Post

The following parts fit with no modifications required:

Extractor, recoil spring, guide rod, recoil spring plug, firing pin stop, magazine, hammer, hammer strut, hammer pin, safety, sear, sear pin.
I hope you meant the ejector, as the extractor on a Max-I is nothing like a standard 1911 extractor.
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  #11  
Old 04-02-2010, 11:42 PM
partsproduction partsproduction is offline
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Quote:
I hope you meant the ejector, as the extractor on a Max-I is nothing like a standard 1911 extractor.
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It was cut and pasted from the website. I didn't check it's veracity.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2010, 09:22 AM
Bullitt_Bret Bullitt_Bret is offline
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I owned a 1911 Llama about a decade ago and truthfully will admit it looked great from 10 feet away but once you got up close the workmanship (if you could call it that) was of the poorest quality I’d ever seen.

That said – for what it was – it worked. Granted I had to do some “tuning” – because while it would digest 230gr FMJ all day long, it was plagued by failure to feed problems with almost anything else. But once I spent some time working on the feed ramp and deburring all the rough edges (a lot of rough edges!) I never had any failure to feed problems.

Funny thing is I had a friend with a Gold Cup who used to give me a lot of crap about my “POS Llama” and how it wasn’t even good enough to be a paperweight. Well we had went to the range one day and had a kind of impromptu shoot off –

Two mags 7rds each @ 10 yards. While the Gold Cup was indeed accurate (super tight groupings) it was a super finicky and actually had one failure to feed and two failure to eject (stove-pipes) – whereas my “POS” Llama ran through both mags without any difficulties. Granted the Gold Cup was a Precision Instrument when it came to punchin holes in paper, but it was hardly something someone could rely on in a life or death situation.

Anyway I guess I’m trying to say – don’t try to make the Llama something it isn’t. If it works – leave it alone and just enjoy it. The money would be better spent elsewhere.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2010, 09:51 PM
wlhawk wlhawk is offline
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The only Llama I've seen at a range was the 1911 equivelent of a Yugo. When it came apart I was lucky not to have been hit by parts of the pistol.
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2010, 12:11 AM
mallen mallen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead6814 View Post
Let me get this out of the way. I know Llama 1911's aren't viewed highly. In fact, many describe them as the one blemish on the 1911's history. Even the Ballista Mollinar (or however it's spelled) is more beloved than a Llama.

But at the price this guy is asking, well, it started turning gears. I mean, I'll never see a .45 ACP THIS CHEAP AGAIN. It couldn't be cheaper. If it was I'd have to choose between it and gas for my car for a month. Which means I'd be walking to work.

So here's the question:

Llama 1911's are said not to be "true" 1911's in that they aren't parts compatible with "true" 1911's. Is there anyway, using a dremel and a drill press (and other machinery) to remedy this? As in, if you put enough man-power into it, it could accept regular 1911 parts?

At the price I'd just buy it for the frame and build a real 1911 out of that. Can that be done?
What is a good deal on one? I saw one for 300 at a pawn shop and passed. My reasoning was that for 389 I can get an RIA GI
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:48 PM
s4s4u s4s4u is offline
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Originally Posted by borntoraisehogs View Post
It is a waste of time and money to buy an inexpensive Llama and then ruin the benefit of your bargain by trying to add improvements to make it something it never will be .
.
I couldn't have said it better.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:53 AM
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kl7883 kl7883 is offline
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this is a older thread,but i cant help but comment on this.a llama is very simply a cheap and with some minor work 100 percent reliable 1911(it is a 1911).it is not the most accurate gun by any means.with a reasonable amount of knowledge and the some fabricating/welding it can be a very accurate little pistol.i have 4 minimax's.2 subcompacts and 2 regular officer size minimax's.one of my subcompacts i decided i wanted to spruce up and accurize.i tig welded up the stock barrel hood and lower lugs to get a proper fit.replaced the barrel link,sear spring,sear and it now uses the para warthog stainless magazines,so no more magazine feed issues.it has over 600rds since the redo and not ONE ftf or fte.it will consistantly hold a 3" group at 20yds when i shoot and i am by no means a good marksmen.



so the moral to the story,ANYTHING is possible if you understand how a 1911 works and are willing to take the time.the llamas have the best foundation ever made,a 1911.
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2010, 07:03 AM
maraf maraf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead6814 View Post
Let me get this out of the way. I know Llama 1911's aren't viewed highly. In fact, many describe them as the one blemish on the 1911's history. Even the Ballista Mollinar (or however it's spelled) is more beloved than a Llama.

But at the price this guy is asking, well, it started turning gears. I mean, I'll never see a .45 ACP THIS CHEAP AGAIN. It couldn't be cheaper. If it was I'd have to choose between it and gas for my car for a month. Which means I'd be walking to work.

So here's the question:

Llama 1911's are said not to be "true" 1911's in that they aren't parts compatible with "true" 1911's. Is there anyway, using a dremel and a drill press (and other machinery) to remedy this? As in, if you put enough man-power into it, it could accept regular 1911 parts?

At the price I'd just buy it for the frame and build a real 1911 out of that. Can that be done?
If I were to have to give some time and extra cost on a gun to make it a true 1911 but initially comes in cheap but metal is good, i'd go for the Norinco (pick from 1911A1s to para hi cap clones) or maybe an entry level Armscor, the maker of STI Spartan
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2010, 01:52 PM
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kl7883 kl7883 is offline
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thats also a good idea.my only point by my post was that a llama is a decent starting point for a beginner looking to get into 1911s.i get really chapped when folks state their opinions as FACT.a llama is good to start with,because say you do screw it up..........oh well,thats only 300 bucks opposed to screwing up a 800 dollar gun.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2010, 04:29 AM
JDG JDG is offline
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My Brother just picked up a Llama, against my will Will see how she shoots this week, but I have my doubts on reliability. He said the grips were unique, but looked like standard officers. If the bushings are the issue, than I guess hes right. He paid $150 for it, and looks to be new. Can't buy a Keltec for that!!!
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  #20  
Old 06-02-2010, 05:26 PM
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kl7883 kl7883 is offline
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haha,no you cant buy a keltec for that!lol!
fyi,the biggest reliability problem with them is the barrel overhanging the frame feed area.getting the correct angle on it and putting the feed lip on the barrel where it dosnt overhang will make a 100 percent difference in reliability.
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  #21  
Old 06-03-2010, 10:08 AM
mtnsmith mtnsmith is offline
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.22 LLama

Hi Guys, I am fairly new to this forum and don't post much but I do have a question on the LLama.. I have a .22 llama that I cannot find the model # on, and it has a broken firing pin.. Numrich has parts for the llama but I need the model #.. Does anyone here have any info on the .22 LLama? It is basically a small 1911 style in .22 caliber..

Thanks

mtnsmith
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:28 PM
gkk1011 gkk1011 is offline
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These Llamas are not cheap, they go between $300 and $400. I really like it shoots fine.


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.380 ACP a mini 1911
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Last edited by gkk1011; 06-04-2010 at 11:50 PM. Reason: correction
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:32 PM
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kl7883 kl7883 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnsmith View Post
Hi Guys, I am fairly new to this forum and don't post much but I do have a question on the LLama.. I have a .22 llama that I cannot find the model # on, and it has a broken firing pin.. Numrich has parts for the llama but I need the model #.. Does anyone here have any info on the .22 LLama? It is basically a small 1911 style in .22 caliber..

Thanks

mtnsmith


im not sure how to tell without looking at it.what length barrel is it?can you post a picture of it?
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2010, 08:13 AM
JDG JDG is offline
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Well after shooting my Brothers MicroMax, the reliability concerns were not warranted! The thing shoots great, no issuse what so ever. It shoots low for both of us at 21', even using a center hold, vs the 6 oclock that I'm used to. Any options for rear sights for this thing? The frt sight is part of the slide.
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2010, 09:21 PM
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kl7883 kl7883 is offline
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i think the front sights are brazed on.the rear are standard 1911 gi style i think.you can get the adjustable 1911 style that should work.when i built my first 3.5" minimax,i decided to got the cheap route.i bought some of those nightsiters glow in the dark circles to go over the old sight holes.then i adjusted the height of the stickers in the rear to adjust for elevation.cheasy....a little...functional and simple.....yes!lol!
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