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  #1  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:22 AM
PsychoSword PsychoSword is offline
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"Midway USA's The Best Defense" on Outdoor channel handgun bullet penetration "tests"




http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/TheBestDefense.aspx
http://www.downrange.tv/bestdefense/

I caught some of episode #2 today. Did anyone catch the segment of this program on Outdoor Channel where they did the handgun bullet penetration tests to determine if a book case with a few books would provide adequate cover in a home defense situation to stop a typical handgun bullet? I was looking for a streaming video online, but was unable to find one.

First they tested a 9mm "hollowpoint" at the side of the book case and it shot through about six books and nearly came out of the last book.

Then they shot a .40S&W "hollowpoint" and it shot through about two books and was stuck in the second book.

Then they fired a .45acp "full metal jacket" round and it only managed to go through the side of the book case and lodged itself into the first hard cover book.

I don't think they ever did mention the bullet weights, at least not for .45acp. They may have mentioned the 9mm and .40 bullet weights, but I forget.

This goes against any penetration testing I've ever done or seen anywhere. One problem was the books were not fixed in place, which in my opinion invalidates their test completely because the larger slower bullet will tend to push a light object, rather than zip through like a smaller diameter faster bullet.

On a fixed target, like a standing person, the results would be different.

I don't know, this just really bugged me, they made it sound like the .45acp is a piece of crap driven by myth and I was just wondering if anyone else saw that and was bothered by their unscientific methods and strange conclusions/results?
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:01 AM
KYSW1911Sc KYSW1911Sc is offline
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Ya I watched it, what bugged me is that they presented it as showing how good a book self can be for cover, and then turned it into what seemed like a contest.
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  #3  
Old 01-15-2010, 04:36 AM
PsychoSword PsychoSword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYSW1911Sc View Post
Ya I watched it, what bugged me is that they presented it as showing how good a book self can be for cover, and then turned it into what seemed like a contest.
Good point. I guess I never thought about that. That may have bothered you because if I recall correctly, I think they started the segment by saying a handgun penetrates poorly and then went on to show this mess.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:09 AM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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I think they were playing up to audience expectations.

They showed that it was no contest. NOTHING penetrated very far.

Joe
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2010, 09:20 AM
KYSW1911Sc KYSW1911Sc is offline
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I also don't get the point of only stacking up 5 or 6 books, I havn't seen many bookshelves in peoples homes that weren't full or pretty close to full.
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:27 AM
R0CKETMAN R0CKETMAN is offline
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Saw it and thus now use a "websters" in place of trauma plate
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0CKETMAN View Post
Saw it and thus now use a "websters" in place of trauma plate
Make sure you use plenty of duct tape

Anyway, didn't Mythbusters do an episode about this?

EDIT - Here's the results (recommend ignoring comments section; seems to be mostly kids): http://mythbustersresults.com/episode-112-coffin-punch
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2010, 08:33 PM
DUNDEM DUNDEM is offline
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Test

I too saw this bogus test. I didn't like the fact that they didn't use and JHP defense round for the .45acp like a 185GR +P GS or Pow'r Ball from Corbon which I thought skewed/invalidated the results.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2010, 12:23 AM
killgar killgar is offline
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I don't read books, guess I'm screwd. I wonder how well my television would protect me.
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2010, 12:47 AM
dcsans dcsans is offline
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9mm FMJ will penetrate better than 45 and even 40 in some cases. Just because it penetrates well does not necessarily mean it is a better stopper. So I am not surprised it penetrated more books.

http://savvysurvivor.com.cnchost.com...stic_tests.htm
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:20 AM
PsychoSword PsychoSword is offline
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Oh I have no doubt about that, the 9mm fmj penetrates hard objects well, compared to a lot of other handgun rounds. There were tests done by the military back during WWII that showed a 9x19mm would penetrate a standard issue steel helmet at a far greater distance than a .45acp. The advantage of the .45acp on soft targets is that it seems to produce more tissue damage and is less likely to be stopped by bone since it retains a larger amount of momentum than smaller rounds that go a little faster like the 9x19mm and .40S&W.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:01 PM
PsychoSword PsychoSword is offline
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I wanted to add though, I hope you realize that it penetrated more books because they weren't fixed in place? I'm not saying if the books were fixed in place, the 9mm would not still penetrate more, because it is a smaller diameter, faster flying round, but having the books just stacked next to each other with nothing to keep them in place just exacerbated the situation. All things being equal, a heavier 9mm or a 180gr. .40S&W has about the same ballistic coefficient as a .45acp 230gr. round. Now if the books were fixed in place, the momentum of the .45acp round might have broken a few hard covers. But books are not good mediums for testing effectiveness on human or animal targets, ballistic gelatin is much better for that.

Last edited by PsychoSword; 01-27-2010 at 01:03 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:58 PM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoSword View Post
But books are not good mediums for testing effectiveness on human or animal targets, ballistic gelatin is much better for that.

Ballistic gelatin ?!?!

The point of the exercise was that books in a bookshelf are good
cover. Period. As much as I love the caliber wars, this has nothing
to do with caliber. THE BOOKS STOPPED EVERYTHING. The caliber you
love and the caliber you hate. Everything.

Joe
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2010, 04:19 AM
PsychoSword PsychoSword is offline
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I understand the point of the exercise, I'm the one who posted the thread. I think that's been thoroughly discussed in the thread. Did you even read it??
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2010, 05:08 AM
Herefordman1 Herefordman1 is offline
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After reading all this, I guess I'll put a refrigerator in the bed room!!!!!!
HA HA
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2010, 10:39 AM
msd msd is offline
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They also did one on a refrigerator. What was BS about it is they forgot to add the ice cube trays the frozen food, ect., ect. How many fridges do you know of that are empty in the freezer part? Unless it's a fridge in the garage used for beer only.
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