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  #1  
Old 08-14-2002, 05:33 PM
Windrunner Windrunner is offline
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Colt Defender ejection problems




After many years of owning Glocks, and never having trouble with them, I finally decided to buy a 1911! I have to say however, that my experience with the Colt Defender has not been pleasant.

Problem #1:
Brass is usually ejected rearward (hard!, I had quite a bloody forehead at the range yesterday), although about 25% of the time the ejection path seems to be random. After having studied the archived posts on this board, I have decided to measure the height of the ejection port and lower it if necessary (probably cure the 'random' ejections), and change the geometry of the ejector up and left (with the idea of ejecting lower and more to the right).

Anyone have any other thoughts about ejection problems like this? Are all Defenders this bad out of the box? Will any of the aftermarket ejectors (e.g. Wilson) fit this gun and correct the problem?

Problem #2:
Getting the slide release lever back into the gun requires some degree of trial and error. The recoil spring/guide rod assembly seem to force the barrel link rearward and into a position where the open hole in the link is covered by the lug on the barrel that holds the link. It usually takes me about two minutes of tinkering to get the slide release back into the slide through the barrel link.

Is this a design flaw with the short spring/guide rod assembly? Are there aftermarket assemblies for the Defender? Coming from the virtually instant slide/frame reassembly time of the Glocks, I feel as though there is an undue amount of effort needed to get the Defender back together.

Thanks in advance for the help,
Jon
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  #2  
Old 08-14-2002, 06:07 PM
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John Harrison John Harrison is offline
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How is the extractor tension? A lot of factory guns come with no tension on the extractor and this will cause erratic ejection.

Take a look at the inside surfaces of the slide around the ejection port to see if there are any brass tracks from the empties hitting the slide on their trip out of the gun. This usually happens when the erratic ejection thing is happening. It's usually just an indicator of a problem, rather than creating the problem as most modern 1911's have lowered ports from the manufacturer.

Look at either the extractor tension, a too short ejector (if it was a used gun, somebody may have tried to fix the problem and tried different nose angles, eventually shortening the nose too much), or trying to run a shok-buff in a shorter than Commander length gun.

Commander and shorter guns have a lot less slide stroke to the rear than Gov't length guns. They need all of that stroke (which you take away by adding shok-buffs) and all of the length of the extractor nose (shortening it has the same effect as limiting the slide's rearward travel).

Hope this helps. Please let us know.

As to your assembly problem, does your gun use a full length guide rod? If so, is there a small hole cross drilled about halfway down the length of it? If so, use the paper clip trick.

Take a common paperclip and open up one leg, bend a small 90 degree leg into it. Lock the slide to the rear, insert the leg that you just bent into the small cross hole. Ease the slide down against the paperclip and it will contain the recoil spring plug, spring and rod into one unit.

If the paperclip trick can't be used due to no FLGR, then you just have to wrassle with it some. It gets easier with practice.
Good Luck!
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  #3  
Old 08-14-2002, 06:51 PM
OMEGA5 OMEGA5 is offline
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I hate that you're have problems. I've had mine for over a year now and have never had any of the problems you describe. My brass flys back but to the right and as for getting the slide release lever back in, I think it's just a matter of you getting use to it. Having had 1911's for over 30yrs, I haven't noticed that it is any more difficult than anyother 1911 model I've owned and I've owned quite a few.
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2002, 05:09 AM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is online now
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I would second the advice to check extractor tension - Colt unfortunately has learned from Kimber how cheap MIM extractors are, and is using them. I advise to immediately replace ALL Kimber extractors (and any Colt extractor in a gun built in the last year) with a spring steel Cylinder & Slide extractor.

Spring steel is the only "correct" original Browning spec extractor material. Anything else seems to cause problems.
l
As far as reassembly goes, yes, there is a simple trick. I had to get my Defender out of the safe to explain it for you, though!

Reassemble the slide. You will notice that the link is
pushed back by the recoil spring assembly - don't worry about that and start the assembled slide back on the rails. Hold the gun in your left hand with your index finger through the trigger guard and your next (middle) finger supporting the gun under the trigger guard in the "enhanced cut". Now, use your left thumb to apply slight pressure on the end of the barrel/slide, pushing the slide back while holding the gun with the muzzle pointing at the floor. You will now be able to easily line up the link visually by using your thumb to control the slide. Insert the slide stop pin and then carefully rotate and seat the slide stop - preferably without scratching the frame!

It's actually quite easy once you've done it.

If the extractor doesn't cure it, Colt will fix it for you, or any good smith can alter the ejector. Don't use cheap ammo - particularly troublesome for some guns are UMC yellow box ball and Blazer ammo. Winchester and Federal seem to run best in the greatest variety of guns.

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements" - from a mid-1800's Colt pistol newspaper ad - there have always been imitators, it seems. CC
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  #5  
Old 08-18-2002, 08:22 PM
Windrunner Windrunner is offline
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Thank you all for your generous help! Mr. Harrison you were correct that the ejection port is already 'lowered' (about .445, I recall). The pistol is new, no shock buffers in the frame or anything. I changed the geometry of the ejector slightly and this seemed to make a large difference. Got about 50 more rounds through the gun before the extractor claw broke-it's made out of pot metal!! I will take Col Colt's suggestion and get a replacement extractor from Cylinder & Slide. Thanks also Col. Colt for the suggestion on re-assembly; this seems to make life significantly easier!

Have mostly been using handloads (all case-gaged) in the gun. Tried some Blazer and didn't like the way it fed. When I get the new extractor in the gun, I'll try a few hundred rounds each of Federal and Winchester ammo and see if either runs better than the stuff off of my Dillon 550.

I will update the board as to my progress, 'till then, see you on the range!

Jon
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2006, 09:33 PM
gg56 gg56 is offline
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colt defender ejection problem

I just bought a new colt defender and I also have been having problems with the ejection. I have had several shells eject to my forehead and cut me so that I would bleed. I had one gun smith look at it and he increased the tension on the extractor to 27 oz. He indicated that he fired 3 clips without problems. After I fired 30 rounds, I was again hit in the forehead about a half of an inch from the previous hit. The gun smith polished the extractor and after firing 50 rounds I would get one shell coming straight back at me. Another person looked at the gun and filed a bevel on the ejector. The problem has not been solved.

The gun smith I have taken it to now wants to replace the ejector and extractor new parts.

The latest information as of 8-17-06. I sent the gun back to Colt for repair. They replaced the extractor with slide and ejector. I received the gun and fired 50 rounds. Three of the 50 rounds hit me in the forehead with one hard enough to cause bleeding. I notified Colt and they indicated that they were going to send me a new Defender.

Any thoughts on this? I have been using Winchester 230 grain FMJ ammo from Walmart.

Thank you



UPDATE: 12-18-2006
I got the new replacement defender from colt in November. It ejected properly for the first 300 rounds. After that it is randomly ejecting back toward my forehead. I am very dissappointed with this gun. I now think that all of these defenders have a design flaw and if you shoot it enough times at the range it will eject to the rear.

Last edited by gg56; 12-17-2006 at 08:32 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2006, 12:22 PM
unter unter is offline
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Any idea I where I can get these parts and how to rectify the problem?

http://www.cylinder-slide.com
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2006, 01:43 PM
DistantTea DistantTea is offline
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Yeah if you are going to tune the gun you have to send it to a smith, or you just have to play with it until it breaks and then you send it to a smith.

*edited because I didn't realize at first I was replying to a four year old thread*
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Last edited by DistantTea; 06-12-2006 at 01:47 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2006, 01:03 AM
smschulz smschulz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg56
I just bought a new colt defender and I also have been having problems with the ejection. I have had several shells eject to my forehead and cut me so that I would bleed. I had one gun smith look at it and he increased the tension on the extractor to 27 oz. He indicated that he fired 3 clips without problems. After I fired 30 rounds, I was again hit in the forehead about a half of an inch from the previous hit. The gun smith polished the extractor and after firing 50 rounds I would get one shell coming straight back at me. Another person looked at the gun and filed a bevel on the ejector. The problem has not been solved.

The gun smith I have taken it to now wants to replace the ejector and extractor new parts.

The latest information as of 8-17-06. I sent the gun back to Colt for repair. They replaced the extractor with slide and ejector. I received the gun and fired 50 rounds. Three of the 50 rounds hit me in the forehead with one hard enough to cause bleeding. I notified Colt and they indicated that they were going to send me a new Defender.

Any thoughts on this? I have been using Winchester 230 grain FMJ ammo from Walmart.

Thank you
Same thing happened to me. I have put maybe 7-800 rounds thru mine. I had two in a row hit me in the forhead and leave a couple of nice marks. I was pretty surprise but just blew it off as a fluke.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2006, 08:39 PM
gg56 gg56 is offline
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Colt defender ejection

Thank you for your reply.

I got a new replacement Colt Defender from Colt and it ejected fine for the first 300 rounds. After that it randomly hit me it the head and seems to be more frequent.

It is totally unacceptable. One of the ejected shells hit me dead on my safety glass lens. If I wasn't wearing them, the shell would of damaged my eye.

I shoot other semi-automatic pistols and none of them ever hit me.

Last edited by gg56; 12-20-2006 at 05:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-17-2006, 08:51 PM
gg56 gg56 is offline
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Colt Defender ejection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windrunner
After many years of owning Glocks, and never having trouble with them, I finally decided to buy a 1911! I have to say however, that my experience with the Colt Defender has not been pleasant.

Problem #1:
Brass is usually ejected rearward (hard!, I had quite a bloody forehead at the range yesterday), although about 25% of the time the ejection path seems to be random. After having studied the archived posts on this board, I have decided to measure the height of the ejection port and lower it if necessary (probably cure the 'random' ejections), and change the geometry of the ejector up and left (with the idea of ejecting lower and more to the right).

Anyone have any other thoughts about ejection problems like this? Are all Defenders this bad out of the box? Will any of the aftermarket ejectors (e.g. Wilson) fit this gun and correct the problem?

Problem #2:
Getting the slide release lever back into the gun requires some degree of trial and error. The recoil spring/guide rod assembly seem to force the barrel link rearward and into a position where the open hole in the link is covered by the lug on the barrel that holds the link. It usually takes me about two minutes of tinkering to get the slide release back into the slide through the barrel link.

Is this a design flaw with the short spring/guide rod assembly? Are there aftermarket assemblies for the Defender? Coming from the virtually instant slide/frame reassembly time of the Glocks, I feel as though there is an undue amount of effort needed to get the Defender back together.

Thanks in advance for the help,
Jon

Reply:

I had the same problem with my first defender (ejecting randomly hitting me in the head). Colt tried fixing it but it still hit me. They gave me a replacement colt defender and after shooting 300 rounds it started to eject randomly to the rear.

Did you ever get your defender to eject 100% of the time to the right or are you still having problems? I am totally dissatisfied with my defender and colt.

I shoot other semi-automatic pistols and they never ever hit me.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2006, 10:39 AM
RDMAX RDMAX is offline
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I would go and tweak the extractor per the board posting on adjusting extractor tension. I purchased two Ed Browns Kobras that had the same exact issue. I almost sold them for the same reason you are experiencing. I am not much of a gunsmith, but I followed the instructions as directed and both guns now run 100%. Both guns had no tension on the extractor, which was causing all the problems. I should have polished the extractor as directed, but since they have been working, I left them alone.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2006, 10:59 AM
MiniDevil MiniDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg56
Reply:

I had the same problem with my first defender (ejecting randomly hitting me in the head). Colt tried fixing it but it still hit me. They gave me a replacement colt defender and after shooting 300 rounds it started to eject randomly to the rear.

Did you ever get your defender to eject 100% of the time to the right or are you still having problems? I am totally dissatisfied with my defender and colt.

I shoot other semi-automatic pistols and they never ever hit me.
This is an ejector issue that is well known. Simply asking for an exchange for another Defender that may or may not have this issue isn't going to fix the problem. I'd either learn to tweak it myself, or send it to a smith and have them do it for you. Not too expensive at all.

I hope things work out better for you
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2006, 11:41 AM
Bob Brown Bob Brown is offline
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It seems to me that these problems are caused by one of 2 issues. Either the ejector is coming loose, or the extractor is clocking AND lacks pressure. There's a third possibility as well, now that I think of it.
I've seen a couple of Colts recently that have soft ejectors. The nose actually gets mushroomed and this'll definitely affect ejection trajectory. You can remove the flared metal and sometimes it will not return...but it can and if so, just replace it with a real one!
Speaking of replacing; if that extractor is MIM, I recommend you get rid of it. The extractor needs to be spring-steel and MIM is not. That's why the claw keeps breaking. Colt, and any other manufacturers using MIM for that application, should be ashamed. Their engineers should know better.

Bob
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2006, 09:03 PM
gg56 gg56 is offline
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colt defender ejection problem

Thank you for the information Bob. The gun ejected fine when it was new out of the box. After shooting 300 rounds, I am now getting more frequent shells coming straight back to my forehead or even my eye glass lens.

The gun was made this September. How do I know if it is a MIM(machine injection molded) ejector/extractor? You are the second person that indicated these parts should be spring steel.


Instead of selling the gun, maybe I should try to buy a new spring steel extractor and ejector and have my gunsmith install them. I do not think Colt will do it, even though they should.

Can I buy the spring steel parts from Cylinder and Slide (ejector and extractor)?

I didn't notice a mushrooming extractor or a loose or deformed ejector but something is changing and what you are saying makes sense.

Do you think it would be worth the investment by installing these parts?

Has this replacement of spring steel for MIM parts ever solved defender ejection problems for other people?

thank you,

george
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2006, 09:53 PM
Bob Brown Bob Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg56
Thank you for the information Bob. The gun ejected fine when it was new out of the box. After shooting 300 rounds, I am now getting more frequent shells coming straight back to my forehead or even my eye glass lens.

The gun was made this September. How do I know if it is a MIM(machine injection molded) ejector/extractor? You are the second person that indicated these parts should be spring steel.


Instead of selling the gun, maybe I should try to buy a new spring steel extractor and ejector and have my gunsmith install them. I do not think Colt will do it, even though they should.

Can I buy the spring steel parts from Cylinder and Slide (ejector and extractor)?

I didn't notice a mushrooming extractor or a loose or deformed ejector but something is changing and what you are saying makes sense.

Do you think it would be worth the investment by installing these parts?

Has this replacement of spring steel for MIM parts ever solved defender ejection problems for other people?

thank you,

george
Last question first: Replacing the MIM parts seldom cures any problems...but tuning the replacements usually does. And replacing them keeps them from breaking.
The "mushrooming" applies to the Ejector, not extractor. It happens when the case is slammed into it by the inertia of ejection caused by firing and extractor tension holding it in position.
If you don't want Colt to fix their problem then I do suggest a new 'tuned' extractor, and have a close look at the nose of that ejector.
I'll tell you what...if you want, send me the slide intact, that is with the firing pin and extractor installed, and I'll either tune yours if it isn't MIM, or I'll install and tune a new Colt 'real' extractor and return it. All it'll cost you is a little time and postage.
I can't help you with the ejector because it's part of the frame and the shipping would be more than your local smith would charge.
Contact me via [email protected]

Bob
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