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  #1  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:50 AM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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Help me pick a Colt series 70 carry gun reissue vs orginal WW1, WW2 or 70 series?




I was going to buy a Springfield Milspec the other day and the dealer had an orginal WWI colt. I loved the way it felt and no other 1911 compares to it. I want a hardcore combat reliable 1911 like what was fielded in the wars.

Should I get an orginal series 70 or a reissue?

I understand from reading on here that the old 1911's are not heat treated. What year did Colt start heat treating their guns? What years did other improvements come in prior to the series 80?

Do the WWI, WW2 or series 70 REISSUED guns have MIM?

What year did Colt start using MIM?

Out of all my options, which 1911 would make the best carry gun? I may modify it later. If I can, I would prefer a stainless steel barrel, better than military sights, maybe a factory orginal reliability package? I understand I might not be able to get any of these on an older style hardcore 1911 but might as well ask.

I want to use 230gr rounds and 8 round after market mags.

I basically want to most reliable fielded version of a colt 1911 with the basic upgrades that are not custom upgrades. The m4 colt 6920 version of 1911's.
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Shad Roe Shad Roe is offline
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dsk,
We are not worthy! That is a fine-*ss pistol there!
Thanks for the pic and sage advice for the OP(hammer).

I'm a carbon-steel/blue fan;and,there's always the hard chrome option for that stuff.

I know it's silly;but,I had an AMT Hardballer at an early age. Sorta scarred me for life on SS,which I understand the newer metal to be a much improved version of that type of steel nowadays. It's something I'm trying to work through...
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2009, 03:36 PM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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DSK,

Is that a gunsite that you have in the picture, if not what model and year is it? How would a WWII reissue be for a carry gun? Would it have the improvements from a post WWI gun with heat treated parts? Where did you get those grips? They are nice. What is the difference between the WWI and WWII reproduction? Wish one came with a SS barrel...

Last edited by hammer45; 11-28-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2009, 03:53 PM
ACP.45.45.45 ACP.45.45.45 is offline
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You can't beat an XSE GM in stainless and you get the added advantage that if it gets dropped it will not fire. It is an Urban Legend that you can't get a good trigger feel on the series 80 I own both and have owned many and handled many more 70 and 80 style Colt 1911's and a good crisp 4 # is doable on each.
Good Luck with whichever you choose.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2009, 04:27 PM
Kamerer Kamerer is offline
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You have a lot of comparing to do to figure which one has the features you want. That's not a bad thing - it means there's more from you to choose from!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer45 View Post
I was going to buy a Springfield Milspec the other day and the dealer had an orginal WWI colt. I loved the way it felt and no other 1911 compares to it. I want a hardcore combat reliable 1911 like what was fielded in the wars. The WWI, if you have already decided that feels so nice to you, would be a very correct example of that. So if you want that combat authenticity, that's a top candidate.

Should I get an orginal series 70 or a reissue? Comes down to "authenticity" and modifications. The original is a fine weapon, especially the early years (say, 70-76), and colt has not produced a regular production gun as well finished in years. The repro is not an "authentic" reissue but is high quality and with a few mods some find desirable - lowered ejection port, taller sights especially. Personally, I would always get the original Series '70 over the so-called "repro." It takes a bit more shopping to find a near-mint original, but it can be done and is about the same price. I have two and they are among my most satisfying guns, period, not just Colt makes.

Do the WWI, WW2 or series 70 REISSUED guns have MIM? Yes, but nothing like SA or Kimber. Very few parts - disconn., mag catch/lock, that's about it.

What year did Colt start using MIM? mid 1990s I think, but it's just not an issue with Colt guns like some others and older ones.

Out of all my options, which 1911 would make the best carry gun? A better carry option would be a Commander or smaller - full size 1911s don't carry easily unless for most people unless you mean "open" carry without concealment concerns. Among the choices you've laid out, there is not a huge difference as to which is better for carry. I may modify it later. If I can, I would prefer a stainless steel barrel, better than military sights, maybe a factory orginal reliability package? I understand I might not be able to get any of these on an older style hardcore 1911 but might as well ask.

I want to use 230gr rounds and 8 round after market mags. If you want flush-fit mags, you are generally better off with 7rd mags and Colt or very similar. If you don't care about flush-fit, it's not such a problem.

I basically want to most reliable fielded version of a colt 1911 with the basic upgrades that are not custom upgrades. The m4 colt 6920 version of 1911's. Well, that would be the 01991 (1991 Series 80) with the basic taller sights and lowered port. Has the grooved barrel like most post-2000 Colts for improved reliability (except the WWI). A Series 70 repro would also be very close. Both are excellent guns out of the box at near the lowest price points in the line-up. Other common mods can be acquired by getting the XSE model.
I think you might want to look at the 01991, the 01970, and the 01980XSE. The first two are going to be close to the basic design with just a touch of alteration to modern tastes. The 01980XSE and the 01991 are going to come with the flat MSH/long trigger like the "original" 1911, the 01970 is going to have the a1 style arch/short. If you found the WWI repro fit your hand much better than the GI MilSpec, then that is likely why. These pieces can be altered without great expense, but no need to go that way if you buy the right gun to start with.

As to the "GI" vs taller or other type sights - it's more of an issue nowadays that many people shoot indoors on darkened ranges. If you shoot outdoors it's not as big a deal as folks make it out to be - sort of like the "urban myth" mentioned by ACp.45... about the 80 vs. pre-80 safety system. A great trigger can be had with about the same effort with either. Often they come that way from the factory - custom job not necessary.

Bottom line - these are my opinions and other's will vary - there's just no hard rules here. There are many variations you can pick and choose from to suit your desires for authenticity/modification and your unique aesthetics. Any of the guns you mentioned can work well for what you want.
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Last edited by Kamerer; 11-28-2009 at 04:34 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer45 View Post
DSK,

Is that a gunsite that you have in the picture, if not what model and year is it? How would a WWII reissue be for a carry gun? Would it have the improvements from a post WWI gun with heat treated parts? Where did you get those grips? They are nice. What is the difference between the WWI and WWII reproduction? Wish one came with a SS barrel...
I post that baby every couple of months and always get the same responses. No it's not a Gunsite, but instead it's my idea of what a Gunsite should look like. I didn't like the angled, front cocking serrations on Colt's Gunsite so I made my own rendition based on a plain vanilla Series 70 stainless. It has Novak sights, a match bushing, Ed Brown hammer and beavertail, serrated front strap, flat serrated MS housing, satin beadblast finish, and of course a trigger job. Everything else is factory, including the thumb safety, trigger, barrel, and most internal parts. The grips were sent to me by Colt's Custom Shop 15 years ago as replacements for a plain set of grips I had that cracked. I have never seen a similar set for sale.

To answer your other questions, a WW2 replica would do just as well as a WW1, but understand you're taking a classic replica (complete with vestigial sights) and trying to make it more modern, so what's the point unless you simply like the rollmarks? Definitely don't use an actual WW2 or earlier vintage pistol. Aside from being more delicate, they are also quite valuable these days and should be fired very little, if at all. The new reproductions on the other hand are new, modern pistols with early classic features so they can be fired as often as you like.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:35 PM
lfpiii lfpiii is offline
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The only problem I see with new production Colts is the lack of quality with MIM parts. I purchased new stainless 70, 80 and Gold Cup last year and had to spend a lot of money replacing parts that were substandard.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:41 PM
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With only three parts being MIM, what were the issues you encountered?

Good thing you didn't buy a Kimber or Springfield, otherwise you'd have had to replace most of the gun.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Andy Andy is offline
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I agree that dsk's pistola is how the Colt Gunsite Pistol should have been configured. That being said, I am very happy with my Colt CGPs. Gunsite has them on sale for $1189, which is a steal, although a carefully inspected s/s S70 with the Model O Package from the Colt Custom Shop will look pretty much like dsk's and for about the same money.

Regards,
Andy
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:08 PM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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Will the remake feel and function like the old 1911's? There is just something about an orginal battle tested 1911. I would trust the WWI remake more than a more modern one. I would prob. only change the sites if anything. I thought there was more MIM than there is. How would the WWI compare to a springfield? Im guessing Springfield uses more MIM?

Would I gain any advantage over a 1970's series 70 with a newer one? Or will it just have those few mim parts listed?

Whats the deal with those gunsites? Where are they on sale? Whats MIM in them?

Last edited by hammer45; 11-28-2009 at 08:40 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:40 PM
Plexi Plexi is offline
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Originally Posted by lfpiii View Post
The only problem I see with new production Colts is the lack of quality with MIM parts. I purchased new stainless 70, 80 and Gold Cup last year and had to spend a lot of money replacing parts that were substandard.
Really? Wow, I have purchased 5 Colt 1911's over the last 2 years and have had no problems at all. I put 5000 rounds through my WW1 repro alone in a 7 month span.

Last time I looked there are only 3 MIM parts in any of those guns. Were they breaking?

Just curious.

"Substandard" usually means "they broke" to me or they were replaced to meet personal specs or you got sent up some greedy gunsmith's ladder of dollars.

I've got nothing against wanting a steel disconnector, sear and mag catch but again, just curious if they broke.



BTW....Nice piece dsk...I never get sick of seeing that one.

As far as the OP's question:

IMHO, a stock S70 repro(just bought my 2nd last week) makes a stellar carry gun, as does the WW1 repro. I have both and love the WW1, it's my favorite, it's rugged, reliable, simple and it is carried regularily. I can shoot very well with it at distance provided I have good lighting...75 feet max indoors is what I have to work with 90% of the time but outside I have shot at 50 and 100 yards.
Man sized plywood with paper on it at those distances doesn't stand a chance!

At 25 ft, it's one ragged hole with either gun. Truth be told, I prefer the WW1's feel and features over the S70.

Here's the new one:





And the WW1 as new:



and now:



Can't live without a lanyard loop when out fishing and hiking:

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  #12  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:01 PM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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Plexi, what all did you do to you WWI gun? What brand grips are those? I think a WWI with night sites it a carry gun that would make me feel confident since its what the guys carried in the war.
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:19 PM
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Under the hood all mil-spec Colts are basically the same. It sounds like you should simply pick the one you like the best. Internally a WW1 Replica is the same as a Series 70. It's just a matter of what they look like on the outside.

BTW if you're wanting a pistol wth military markings and Series 70 blued finish, you might be interested in the TALO Armed Forces Limited Edition. Just do a quick search if the several recent threads on this one.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #14  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Plexi Plexi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer45 View Post
Plexi, what all did you do to you WWI gun? What brand grips are those? I think a WWI with night sites it a carry gun that would make me feel confident since its what the guys carried in the war.

In quite a few wars and still counting my friend!

Those are VZ Alien grips. They help with the grip and are very very durable. They have been knocked about a bit. The gun may not look it but it's got some dings, finish wear and lots of shooting under it's belt. I would say the finish is pretty durable. Keep it clean and wiped down with oil/protectant.

The only non stock part besides the grips is the mainspring housing...it is a Guncrafter Industries piece. I wanted improve the purchase of the grip on the backside and still retain the lanyard loop. I took a couple of falls down riverbanks this year while fishing and I like the added security of the gun tied to me. Also, when carried IWB the old school loop sticks out a bit this one as you can see is flush and integral to the housing.

I should add that there is a Wilson ETM mag in there too....I don't use those for carry anymore. I use the stock Colt/Checkmate 7rd hybrid mags exclusively now. They fit flush, feed great and are rugged as heck.

It really is a point and shoot gun. I can't say enough good about it. I've become quite attached to it and may retire it from carry in the woods or all together and just enjoy it at the range....maybe get some fancy grips for it.

In my humble opinion if anyone wants to own one 1911, this is the one to have or at least too start with.

It is the progenitor, the quintessential beginning of the greatest pistol ever to grace the planet. "The Yankee Fist".

Once you own an M1911...make no mistake this is the only new true as possible M1911 on the market that is affordable and available, then you can decide what works for you and doesn't on the platform. For instance, me and M1911A1 variants don't get along as well as the M1911...the shorter trigger length of the a1 and arched MSH are not for me. That would be your thing to suss out whether or not you want those features and would dictate your options if a bone stock gun is your choice.

Of course you could build your own off that gun as a base too.

Good luck!
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:11 PM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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This one worked well in Iraq.


Now that I'm home, the 1911 Repro and a Series 70 suits my needs fine.

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  #16  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:22 PM
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This one worked well in Iraq.
Really sucks that she had to stay there. Every time I open Wiki's article on the 1911 I see the top photo of a well-worn, but nonetheless still nice Remington Rand, with the caption "Confiscated early 2004 in or around Al-Qurna, Iraq. Destroyed shortly after."
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:42 PM
tra tra is offline
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Quote:
The only problem I see with new production Colts is the lack of quality with MIM parts. I purchased new stainless 70, 80 and Gold Cup last year and had to spend a lot of money replacing parts that were substandard.
MIM has nothing to do with inferior or low quality. In some cases the parts made this way can be actually superior. Unless the parts broke or wore out prematurely , stating that they are substandard is a bit false. If no one had told most of you which parts they were, you'd have never known,

Parts made by the MIM process can and are very durable.

I won't buy a 1911 clone, and it's not because they are not forged or billet.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:21 PM
Plexi Plexi is offline
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Originally Posted by OIF2 View Post
This one worked well in Iraq.


Now that I'm home, the 1911 Repro and a Series 70 suits my needs fine.

Sir...

"Is the 1911 right for you?"



I just read that tonight...for the 20th time probably. Great article!

That lefty rig is a giveaway!
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  #19  
Old 11-29-2009, 07:22 AM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Originally Posted by hammer45 View Post
Would I gain any advantage over a 1970's series 70 with a newer one? Or will it just have those few mim parts listed?

Chief advantage of the newer issue S70's over the originals are sights that can actually be seen and used as is out of the box, and, the solid bushing.
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  #20  
Old 11-29-2009, 07:30 AM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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What is the differnce between the 70's series. I found a Mark 4 series 70 that I really like. How can I find out the differences between the models?
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:59 AM
Kamerer Kamerer is offline
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Quote:
What is the differnce between the 70's series. I found a Mark 4 series 70 that I really like. How can I find out the differences between the models?
Er, see above or also search the forum. But in short:

The re-issue is just a modern 1991 80 series without the firing pin safety system. That is why it is among the cheaper Colt's on the market. The original was a more hand-built gun with a different barrel/bushing system ("Mk. IV"), historically accurate "GI" sights and more highly polished and finished components. The modern version is just marketed to cash in on the name; the older/original version represents a closer rendition of the original 1911a1 gun except the barrel/bushing improvements and higher finish.
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Last edited by Kamerer; 11-29-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:05 AM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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Get the new one. The sights are far superior and it has the solid bushing. Replace the grip safety (the one on it is a casting) with a GI steel one. I had mine parked dark and it matched perfectly. Also replace the extractor (no series 80 cut). Leave the disconnector and sear alone, or wait for them to break (you might be waiting a long time). I also added a Colt GI MSH with lanyard loop, just because I wanted one. Put on your grips of choice and start shooting. Mine are the indestructible rubber-like ones that sell for $15.00. It is a superb pistol; mine is well over 2000 rds of wad and ball without any malfunctions. It is the Colt 1911 I always wanted. The WW1 repro would also be as good, except for the tiny sights.
Bob


Last edited by OIF2; 11-29-2009 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Added photo
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2009, 01:07 PM
hammer45 hammer45 is offline
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I dont like what I read about the series 70 barrel nuckle upgrade. I think I will go with the WWI reproduction. Seems to have all the proven features and is heat treated. Sweet 1911!
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2009, 03:15 PM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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What's a "nuckle upgrade"? As far a heat treatment is concerned, I think all the Colt 1911s are made the same way... no difference in "heat treatment". But I too could live with a 1911 Repro. There are worse things (like owning a Kimber).
Bob
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2009, 04:28 PM
sevenfor1911 sevenfor1911 is offline
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Series 70 re-issue
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