Pistol, Cal. .45, MEU SOC

[USMC 3504]

For your build: To start find a 1911 that is about 65 yrs old then put it through three wars and countless other campaigns make sure it has a million rounds through it and that someone else has essentially discarded it as obsolete. Then you have a platform to start from.

I have been following the MEU SOC Pistol threads with a lot of interest. When I was on active duty I had no idea they had such a following it is amazing. A lot of the guys that carry these pistols would probably trade for a Kimber, SA loaded or what have you in a minute. Not because the MEU SOC isn't good it is in fact superb but it is also a old worn out, rebuild that has been worn out again, rebuilt and well you get the picture. In general most Marines feel like they get sloppy seconds all day long.

Meanwhile most on this forum myself included would give thousands for a genuine MEU SOC pistol. Many of the Marines that carry these are probably wondering why the FBI gets a brand new sweet custom every 5yrs (I know I am exagerating) built to their specs, while the Marine is still using a pistol that was built and worn out 40years before his mom and dad met. Another thing to realize about these pistols is if examined closely they are not exactly uniform in their build. Some used Bar Sto barrels that has changed. Some have front cocking serrations, some do not, some serrations are vertical some are angled etc. Col Young may have started out making them all the same but Marines must also make do with what they have. Which means if something was not available it was custom built or ordered off the shelf to get the gun back "up" again.

With the age of these pistols they go down while on deployment and are worked on not by Marines at Quantico but Armorer's that are deployed. So while we are salivating over the MEU Pistol some Marine is pissing and moaning right now about how because his pistol's finish is so worn out he has to clean the thing 3 times a day on ship to keep it from rusting. This is not to ruffle feathers it is just an observation of the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" or one man's junk is a sweet pistol.

[SHAFT]

3504,

That was a good post for many different reasons.

[1saxman]

As for me, I've realized I like the design as a shooter/home defense pistol. My other three '1911'-types are too valuable to mess with or even shoot. I like my Taurus 24/7 4" for .45 carry, so I still need a '1911' under the bed or in the truck. Plus, it's always great fun 'putting together' a gun, so I'm looking forward to getting started.

'The MEUSOC pistols have Front cocking serrations.'

The real one posted by DSK somehow missed getting them. Is it not typical?

[Dave Berryhill]

Originally Posted by 1saxman

...

'The MEUSOC pistols have Front cocking serrations.'

The real one posted by DSK somehow missed getting them. Is it not typical?

As far as I can tell, the early pistols did not have front cocking serrations. At some point they were added to the slides during rebuilds but I've never been able to find out exactly when that started.

[Dave Berryhill]

Originally Posted by SHAFT

3504,

That was a good post for many different reasons.

Amen to that!

[mherzog]

Originally Posted by 1saxman

As for me, I've realized I like the design as a shooter/home defense pistol. My other three '1911'-types are too valuable to mess with or even shoot. I like my Taurus 24/7 4" for .45 carry, so I still need a '1911' under the bed or in the truck. Plus, it's always great fun 'putting together' a gun, so I'm looking forward to getting started.

'The MEUSOC pistols have Front cocking serrations.'

The real one posted by DSK somehow missed getting them. Is it not typical?

That photo shows an early build, which didn't have front serations. There are old builds still in the fleet (but not many), there are new builds in the fleet, and there are mixed breeds (for the reasons shown by USMC 3504, above). There is only one build sheet, but manufacturers have changed over the years due either to availability issues or something better having come along.

[mherzog]

The pistol on the left is an old build, on the right is a new. On the right you can see the front serrations and Novak sights. There are photos online that show Marines on the firing line. From end to end, you will see old builds, new builds & mixed breeds - all in front line service.

** I have borrowed the terms "old build" and "new build" from Dave Berryhill's website. They are used to differentiate the pistols before and after the specs changed - they are not official USMC PWS terms.

[accurange]

this thread is great!!! i have been following this meusoc thread and the one over on ar15.com for the last few days. right now i have my remington rand lower and springfield slide over at berryhill being built into the "old style meusoc" keep the good info comming guys!!!!

[1saxman]

Originally Posted by accurange

this thread is great!!! i have been following this meusoc thread and the one over on ar15.com for the last few days. right now i have my remington rand lower and springfield slide over at berryhill being built into the "old style meusoc" keep the good info comming guys!!!!

Can't wait to see it. I like the 'old-style' too, but I would want Tritium sights. However, for those of us who will not be using a USGI receiver, the SA 'Loaded' starts to look good if you can live with the front serrations.

[1saxman]

I'm going to the nation's Gun Show tomorrow afternoon/evening, so I'll look around for a SA 'Loaded', Model PX9109LP. I've seen them on GB for $775 and up. If I get one I've already decided I will sell some of the more valuable ammo that I've been hoarding to pay for it.

[LavaRed]

So, I already have a USGI mixmaster. What would I need to buy to make it into an old style MEU SOC?

[mherzog]

Originally Posted by LavaRed

So, I already have a USGI mixmaster. What would I need to buy to make it into an old style MEU SOC?

Well, you really can't. Most of the parts used on the old style are either no longer available or were made in-house by the PWS, USMC.

A close clone would need, cosmetically: a Millet front sight & 10-8 rear sight, Videki trigger, ambi thumb safety (King style), Commander (old style) hammer, beavertail grip safety (old style), flat mainspring housing with lanyard loop, Parkerized finish, Pachmayr grips and a Wilson 7rd magazine.

Functionally: Bar-Sto barrel & hand-fit bushing (finger tight), lower & flair ejection port, throat barrel, polish feed ramp & breech face, bevel the mag well, hand-fit extractor, 4.5 pound trigger job, 18.5 pound recoil spring and a Wilson Shok-Buff.

[SHAFT]

Originally Posted by mherzog

and a Wilson Shok-Buff.

Oh, no you didn't!! EVERYONE knows you can't have a shok-buff on a "real fighting gun!"

[mherzog]

Originally Posted by SHAFT

Oh, no you didn't!! EVERYONE knows you can't have a shok-buff on a "real fighting gun!"

Hey, I'm with ya! But it's on the spec sheet. I can only guess that with their level of routine maintenance, the Buff won't have a chance to foul the works....

[SHAFT]

I though it would be obvious that I was kidding as I'm aware that it is spec'ed. I guess I should have used a smiley face. I'm a buff user. I just get amused when guys state, for real, what I did in jest. Not only does the MSOB community use buffs, but some of the members of most progressive and switched on gun fighting community ever to carry 1911s do (did) also.

So, in the end, if someone were to state that "you can't buff a REAL fighting 1911",(and actually mean it) they would be GROSSLY misinformed. (or really old)

[1saxman]

I have abandoned the project - it just didn't make sense. I did see the ideal 'tribute MEU-SOC' though - the SA 1911A1 Loaded. At about $740, all it needs is a lanyard loop housing and the Pachmyer grips. I decided to just change out the Heinie sights on my Taurus 24/7 with some Trijicon or other Tritium sights and use that pistol where I would have used the MEU-SOC.

[mherzog]

Yeah, they're sweet pistols and you can study the spec sheets, scrounge all the parts, but unless you can do the work yourself, a scratch build is not for the financial feint of heart.

[mherzog]

Originally Posted by dsk

Pistolsmith Dave Berryhill was making an exact replica of a MEUSOC for customers at one time. I don't know if he's still in the biz or not.

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

I looked it up, he says not.

Mr. Berryhill is still in the business, but he is not making the MEU(SOC) model anymore. His website states that the Traditional Model can be spec'ed as a MEU(SOC) though.

[marios5469]

Originally Posted by joelad

I plan on using my NIB Norinco 1911A1, and making it a MEU SOC clone.

No flames, please. I never fired it, just changed out the plastic grips with checkered walnut, put it back in the box, put the box in the safe.

Just got a used Norc. They are great guns, and if you can find one, I would recommend anyone getting it.

[1saxman]

Originally Posted by joelad

I plan on using my NIB Norinco 1911A1, and making it a MEU SOC clone.

No flames, please. I never fired it, just changed out the plastic grips with checkered walnut, put it back in the box, put the box in the safe.

I don't think I would do it. The frame will have to be cut for the beavertail, the slide has to be milled out for the sights and you can never put it back like it was. Other than that, there are no permanent changes that I know of. The Norinco new-in-box has a fair amount of value as they are well thought-of generally and somewhat rare. You could probably sell it for enough to buy a new Springfield 'Loaded' that is practically MEU-SOC out of the box (model PX9109LP).

[marios5469]

Originally Posted by 1saxman

I don't think I would do it. The frame will have to be cut for the beavertail, the slide has to be milled out for the sights and you can never put it back like it was. Other than that, there are no permanent changes that I know of. The Norinco new-in-box has a fair amount of value as they are well thought-of generally and somewhat rare. You could probably sell it for enough to buy a new Springfield 'Loaded' that is practically MEU-SOC out of the box (model PX9109LP).

I agree. Took me 5+ months to find my used Norinco. Fortunately its in excellent condition. I would think twice about using mine, but a NIB that is practically impossible to come by (Unless you live in Canada, Eh) would be doing yourself a disservice. If anything find a used one that has already been modified and set it up as a MEU SOC, or go with a used Springfield Loaded as a starter.

[joelad]

No surprise the MEU SOCs are worn out. Those pistols were worn out when I was in 25 years ago. Many an NCO and officer had trouble qualifying with them. Grouped like shit.

Just where did they store the old warhorses when the M9 came online? I missed the M9, the Hummer, but did have the A2, and Kevlar.

I fell in love with the 1911 while in the Corps.

[anvilring]

I collect the WWII GI pistols, but I find this an interesting thread so; about some of the terminology in the thread...


MSOB community What does MSOB stand for?

USMC PWS terms. ditto PWS ?

bar-sto barrels.... where do you get these? GI? (gov. mfg.) or civ.?

thanks and regards,
m

[Sgt Art]

http://www.barsto.com/

As a former Crotcher of the Old Corps (I'm so old, back in my day our 782 or deuce gear was a bow and arrow. Only we had to throw the arrows because they hadn't invented string yet.)

Anyway, bravo sierra aside, Bar-Sto stands for Barbara Stone who is Irv Stone's wife and their business is out at 29 Palms, CA (the Stumps). They are a civilian owned business that has made precision barrels for quite some time. You can find their internet site by searching. I bought one of their Super 38 barrels years ago and it did need fitting. It's stainless steel and head spaced on the case mouth just like a .45 ACP does. Prior to that Super 38 head spaced on the little semi rim which made for erratic accuracy.

Okay, MSOB which could be Make Sure you bring your Own Bottle is Marine Special Operations Battalion.

http://www.marsoc.usmc.mil/1stmsob.html

[Dave Berryhill]

PWS is Precision Weapons Section. They are based in Quantico, VA and build match rifles and pistols for the shooting teams, sniper rifles, the MEU(SOC) 1911 and other cool stuff. They are essentially the custom gunsmithing shop for the Marine Corps.