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  #1  
Old 08-25-2009, 05:49 PM
flim-flam flim-flam is offline
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how many safeties?




Went to the range with my brother in law, he shot my Commander Series 80 pretty well, but after the session was going to go the Glock route, He said something about how many internal safeties it had, He's always been a sort of know it all, so I didn't say much but started to think about it,
My 1911 Series 80 has probably 2 internal and 2 external, not including the trigger.
My Series 70 has 1 internal, and 2 external, not including the trigger.

and I know the Glock has nothing external but the trigger, Why do so many "civilians" go Glock? Mabey it's the phycology of the Cocked and locked thing, I believe.
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2009, 06:09 PM
Mike'sgooddeal Mike'sgooddeal is offline
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Take your pick:

Newer is better.

Advertising/marketing.

Peer pressure.

There's a sucker born every minute.



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  #3  
Old 08-25-2009, 06:20 PM
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RickB RickB is online now
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I have never understood how putting a lever in the trigger is a safety? If you pull the trigger the gun goes BANG! When holstered, the Glock is in the same condition of safety as a 1911 with the thumb safety OFF. Actually, some small amount less safe, as the 1911 has the grip safety, which is about as effective a safety device as the Glock trigger lever.
Glocks are relatively cheap, they have the seal of approval of widespread law enforcement use, and parts and services are readily available.
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2009, 06:42 PM
JBnTX JBnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I have never understood how putting a lever in the trigger is a safety? If you pull the trigger the gun goes BANG! When holstered, the Glock is in the same condition of safety as a 1911 with the thumb safety OFF.........

EXACTLY!

I was flamed to high heaven and back over on GlockTalk for pointing
that out.
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:05 PM
1-DAB 1-DAB is offline
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well, since we're doing comparisons, let's list them:

i don't know glocks, other than i don't care for their looks, so i went here:

http://www.glockmeister.com/safeties.shtml

it explains 3 internal, 0 external safeties for a glock:

1. Trigger Safety:
This is incorporated into the trigger (26) in the form of a lever and in the untouched state it prevents the trigger from being moved rearward. If the weapon is dropped or if the trigger is subjected to an off center lateral pressure; the trigger will remain in the forward locked position. The trigger safety can only be released by pressure being applied directly to the lever on the trigger. This type of safety, in conjunction with the other two, offers a minimum fire ready time with a maximum level of safety for the user.

2. Firing pin safety:
In the secured position, the spring loaded firing pun safety plunger (9) projects into the firing pin channel. This prevents the firing pin from moving forward, until the trigger is depressed.

3. Dropped gun Safety:
The firing pin (5) pushes the trigger bar onto the safety ramp of the trigger mechanism housing (23) under the power of the firing pinspring (7). This action places the left side extension of the trigger bar cruciform (the gun oriented with the muzzle down range) on the trigger mechanism housing ramp until the trigger is fully depressed. This safety prevents the trigger bar from releasing the firing pin without the trigger being depressed. If the trigger bar does not drop, the firing pin is not released.

now for a series 80 1911:

found this:

http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2...-safeties.html

and this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231096

it shows the thumb and grip safety internals

i couldn't find a good summary, so this is from my memory:

1)thumb safety, external, locks the slide and blocks the sear to the hammer
2)grip safety, external, must be depressed to allow trigger to be pulled
3)inertial firing pin, internal, firing pin is too short to impact primer if the gun is dropped on the hammer
4)firing pin block, internal, (series 80), trigger must be pulled to unblock firing pin
5)slide safety, external, if slide is pushed back at muzzle, hammer will not fall, thus, gun will not fire.

if i missed anything, please quote and correct.

so by my count, a glock has 3 internal, 0 external safeties, and a 1911 has 2 internal, 3 external safeties.

Last edited by 1-DAB; 08-25-2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: added link to thehighroad
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:20 PM
4thHorseman 4thHorseman is offline
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We carry a Glock in Iraq. We have been extensively trained and certified on them. We have been trained on Glock more indepth then most people. We use Glocks everyday.
That being said, Glocks are the most dangerous pistol I have ever seen. They are down right unsafe to carry a live round in the chamber IMHO.
We are in a war zone, and no one carries the darn things with a round in the chamber. I mean no one. You Glock guys can scream all you want, these are the cold facts that the guys in Iraq deal with every day.
Several have carried a live round in the chamber, and they have had a AD.
An external safety could of prevented the AD's and would allow us to carry one in the chamber.
In the States, I carry a 1911.
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Last edited by 4thHorseman; 08-25-2009 at 07:24 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:53 PM
Col. Colt Col. Colt is offline
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As a trained Glock Armorer who carries one in uniform it is simple. Glock came along when Law Enforcement wanted a replacement for the revolver that was equallly simple for the "Lowest Common Denominator" rookie cop.

And a Glock is basically a "box fed revolver" in use. The long, spongy trigger makes it more difficult to AD for these "non-dedicated personnel", and they don't have to learn anything that might require manual dexterity or extended thought - point gun, pull trigger. (Scary to think these guys get hired, right?)

Why do Civilians buy Glocks? Or HKs, or other "uber Tactical" gear? Because it's stylish. And newer MUST be better! Everyone knows that! How can you be wrong using what the cops use? And it's Germanic and looks cool for a high "CDI" factor. (Chicks Dig It). I use a Glock well, but for me it is short on soul and good old All American heroic tradition. A whole host of our Heros used 1911s fighting for the Right, quite successfully. A Glock can't claim that.

And don't tell anyone a Glock is not a good gun - it is, and people do win matches (even against 1911s) with it, often. And for non-dedicated personnel, it is probably safer than a cocked and locked 1911. Less "Warrior Ethic" required to bond with it and use it acceptably. (But who wants a weapon like that? Police Administrators, that's who.)

But it is more often the user than the pistol that wins, anyway. I once (long ago) beat the local IPSC Glock Racegun hero (optics, 9mm, 3lb connector and all) with my IPSC Limited legal Delta Elite at a club Bowling Pin Match. (He was fast, but a 10MM takes pins off the table with authority!) CC
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2009, 08:45 PM
chuckles007 chuckles007 is offline
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all i'm reading from the list of glock safeties makes it sound like the trigger is the only safety. it sounds like no matter what if the trigger is pulled with a round in the chamber it will fire. i understand the whole dropping thing and the little lever on the trigger, but it just seems like your setting yourself up for a nice burn mark on you pants if your lucky, if you have an IWB you might have more issues.

i'm no genius or anything but why do we always have to re-invent the wheel?
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2009, 10:05 PM
JSandi JSandi is offline
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How can it be a "safety" when its disengaged by pulling the trigger?
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2009, 10:36 PM
1-DAB 1-DAB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSandi View Post
How can it be a "safety" when its disengaged by pulling the trigger?
precisely.....

from condition 1, 2 distinct actions are required: thumb down thumb safety, pull trigger (while engaging grip safety, and not engaging slide safety).

for a glock, just pull trigger (one action)
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  #11  
Old 08-26-2009, 08:13 AM
RGL01 RGL01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
I have never understood how putting a lever in the trigger is a safety? If you pull the trigger the gun goes BANG! When holstered, the Glock is in the same condition of safety as a 1911 with the thumb safety OFF. Actually, some small amount less safe, as the 1911 has the grip safety, which is about as effective a safety device as the Glock trigger lever.
Glocks are relatively cheap, they have the seal of approval of widespread law enforcement use, and parts and services are readily available.
First sidearm was a G21. Very reliable. Shifted over to the Colt 1911 after taking a Mas Ayoob-Stressfire course. Didn't like having to constantly holster a sidearm with no safety like the Glock.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:18 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is online now
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Yup, a 1911 with a crappy 7 lb trigger, cocked, with the thumb safety off and the grip safety taped down or pinned is pretty close to a Glock in safety.

I still keep a couple little Glock 36's, but they are fun little guns to shoot at the range, not to carry.
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:29 PM
JBnTX JBnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thHorseman View Post
We carry a Glock in Iraq. We have been extensively trained and certified on them. We have been trained on Glock more indepth then most people. We use Glocks everyday.
That being said, Glocks are the most dangerous pistol I have ever seen. They are down right unsafe to carry a live round in the chamber IMHO.
We are in a war zone, and no one carries the darn things with a round in the chamber. I mean no one. You Glock guys can scream all you want, these are the cold facts that the guys in Iraq deal with every day.
.........

Thank You! I agree 100%!
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