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  #1  
Old 06-25-2009, 11:27 PM
DLH4570 DLH4570 is offline
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what is the SMALLEST 45acp auto?




What is the smallest 45acp auto, and who makes it?????
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  #2  
Old 06-25-2009, 11:35 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Detonics CM (the first true small production .45 auto!), KahrPM45, Cylinder & SLide Adventurer (big $$!), Glock 36,Wilson Sentinel.....

There are many autos with 3" slide/barrel (COlt Defender, Kimber Ultra, Springfield Micro COmpact, etc), most with OACP dimension/length frames....
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2009, 11:44 PM
tracyballard tracyballard is offline
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this one isn't the smallest, but my Bersa Ultra Compact 45 is a pretty small pistol that shoots great and the recoil is very easy, just like a govt model. Very reliable, never had a hiccup with it.


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  #4  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:04 AM
michael t michael t is offline
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My Detonics is smaller than my Defender in the grip area.
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:10 AM
Asylum Keeper Asylum Keeper is offline
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The Patriot is pretty small

(not mine, but I can take pics of mine compared to a SA Ultra Compact)

edit: I dont remember who, but someone posted pics from a museum. pics of the smallest 45 auto ever made, used be government personnel, had a threaded barrel for suppressor work, and had a "single shot" lock type mechanism. Who was that??
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Last edited by Asylum Keeper; 06-26-2009 at 12:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:19 AM
Heretical45 Heretical45 is offline
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Liberator pistol, dropped to resistance forces in WWII, one shot to take the gun from the person you just incapacitated, extra rounds store in the handle. I also believe it is a smooth bore, dunno that for sure, been awhile since I read up on it.

Also, the smallest 45 acp auto, was the Semmerling .
Quote:
Originally Posted by SG688 View Post
I saved some of the pictures.




http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=215115

Last edited by Heretical45; 06-26-2009 at 12:22 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:36 AM
AreB AreB is offline
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Love the Semmerling pictures, but it wasn't an automatic. It fired from a locked breech and you cycled the barrel forward manually to chamber the next round. Nearly hand-made, teriffically engineered and stupid expensive. They are supposedly still being made by the derringer company in Texas that I've forgotten the name of-Lone Star, maybe?

My nomination for smallest 45acp auto is the AMT DAO .45. I have one, but no pictures. It was out of production for several years, may be back under the Hi Standard brand. It is nearly as heavy as an alloy Commander and has a long and really heavy (12 pounds, even after a Teddy Jacobsen tune-up) DAO trigger but it is really small. Mine is reliable, though I have read that not all are.

Here is a link to somebody field-stripping one on YouTube-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1j0g0ccXU0

And there are several for sale on GunsAmerica-if anyone wants to see what one looks like.
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:55 AM
AreB AreB is offline
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Oops, just read the thread and feel like a prize idiot. I'd never heard of the XLM and thought I was lookin at an LM4. Would love to see AMT vs. Semmerling dimensions. I believe the weights are essentially the same at 23 ounces, the AMT is 5+1; is the Semmerling 5+1 or 4+1?

And it's American Derringer that is(or was) cataloging the Semmerling LM4.
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  #9  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:56 AM
AreB AreB is offline
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Double post

Last edited by AreB; 06-26-2009 at 02:03 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2009, 05:02 AM
richpetrone richpetrone is offline
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Smallest .45acp auto

I have two 1911 style weapons called "Firestars" which were once imported by Interarms Co., from Star out of Spain. They were all the same basic size, which included a 5.5" length slide, and measured 4.5" from the top of the slide down to the end of the grip. I have the 9mm and 40S&W calibers, but they also were made in .45acp. They are good guns, and I still use mine for concealed carry in the summer, when I need a gun that is small and won't "print" underneath a polo shirt.

The Firestar weapons are no longer made since Star went out of business. The guns I have are all steel, are well made, and have very good combat accuracy. You may be able to find one in a gun or pawn shop. I purchased my Firestars with the Starvel nickel finish in the early 1990's; they retailed for roughly $375.00.
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  #11  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:29 AM
Heretical45 Heretical45 is offline
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The LM-4 did have a semi-auto version back in I believe 1974! So the Semmerling does count!
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2009, 10:51 AM
Ben B. Ben B. is offline
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Local gun store has a Liberator on sale in the case. I got to handle it last week. How cool to finally get to hold one, after staring in awe at the pics of them in the Time-Life WWII books.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2009, 11:26 AM
gwn3030 gwn3030 is offline
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My vote is for the now out of production AMT Back-up in 45ACP.
AMT------ 24oz-- 5.75 x 3.75
Detonics-- 32oz-- 6.90 x 4.50
LM4-------24oz-- 5.25 x 3.75
Yes Semmerlings were 'pump action', but so cool, I have to list it here. A true new skill set to operator the LM4.
AMT Back-up is only 10% longer then the LM-4, same height and weight.
17% shorter in height and length compaired to the Detonics and 25% lighter.
(And a Seecamp side by side)






Last edited by gwn3030; 06-26-2009 at 12:27 PM. Reason: corrected photo link
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  #14  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:55 PM
AreB AreB is offline
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gwn3030, excellent pictures-really like the one w/AMT and Seecamp.

I saw a High Standard version of the DAO at a show in Houston not too many years back. It had a sheetmetal plate sandwiched between the right grip and the frame that covered the exposed trigger drawbar mechanism. I was able to order the plate to update my older model and it came in a timely fashion from a location here in Houston. www.highstandard.com goes to a website that claims the DAO 45, the Supermatic 22-and quite a few other pistols-are being made right here. So the DAO may be in production-or it may be as elusive as the American Derringer version of the Semmerling.

Last edited by AreB; 06-26-2009 at 01:56 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2009, 12:44 PM
zdragon52 zdragon52 is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4mGp...layer_embedded
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2009, 04:31 PM
AreB AreB is offline
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We have a winner!
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2009, 04:56 PM
Coltman 77 Coltman 77 is online now
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Colt New Agent

The smallest .45 acp I'm comfortable with is the Colt New Agent.

Incidentally, Colt was the first company to design and market a 3" barrel 1911when they brought out the Defender.

Mine has been absolutely superb, in terms of accuracy and reliability.

It's a very sweet handgun. This picture will give an idea as to it's size.

And Colt is a company that has been in business since 1836.

I don't think the other companies mentioned in this thread can make that claim...

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  #18  
Old 06-27-2009, 06:46 PM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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With launching .45 ACPs there is the small vs the light. In the picture below are, top to bottom are a Colt Defender, a Glock 36 and an AMT backup. I measure with an empty mag inserted in the pistol.

The Colt is fluffy with an Aluminum alloy frame and 6+1 bang power. At 718 grams it is 127m high, 174 mm in length and 31mm in width at the widest pont.

Moving on to a composit frame over a steel slide is the Glock 36 with 6+1 capacity and 636 grams 121mm high and 175 mm in length with a width of 28mm.

Now the AMT .45 Backup. Small, but all SS. 5 shot mag +1 up the pipe. 693 grams. 103mm high , 147mm long and 27mm wide.



There have to be a few who wonder about the Detonics. It was all steel you know. The one I bought in 1984 and still have is all SS. It is 902 grams, 119mm high, 167mm in length, and 33mm wide.

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  #19  
Old 06-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Kamau Kamau is offline
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This small enough for you?

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  #20  
Old 06-28-2009, 01:08 AM
Socrates Socrates is offline
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Funny, but what about the Kahr PM 45? Under 20 oz.....
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2009, 01:20 AM
Socrates Socrates is offline
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Dt
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2009, 05:56 AM
ferretray ferretray is online now
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To my knowledge, the LaFrance .45's are the smallest 1911-based .45's ever made.
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:52 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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The La France Specialties .45 made mostly from stampings in WWII. There is a little information on it at the Security Arms

site www.securityarms.com

That company made and still makes some interesting stuff.

The Kahr would probably be about 20oz. I don't have the .45, but my PM9 is just under 18oz. The 9mm is a nice little pistol.

Not the best gun around, but Cobra Arms used to make (maybe still does) the Patriot in .45, and mine is just over 20oz. Then there is Taurus with their little Millenium Pro. I have the 10+1 composite/steel one and it is 23oz. On their web site it shows they make a model with a Titanium top in a bunch of calibers, including .45, and you can get the .45 in a 6+1 single stack version. That might be quite lite.
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  #24  
Old 06-28-2009, 11:41 PM
Quentin Quentin is offline
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The Star PD is the smallest 45ACP I have. About 25 oz, 4" barrel. A well designed pistol and about as small as I'd want to go in that caliber.
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  #25  
Old 06-29-2009, 01:38 AM
FirearmsEnthusiast FirearmsEnthusiast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretical45 View Post


Liberator pistol, dropped to resistance forces in WWII, one shot to take the gun from the person you just incapacitated, extra rounds store in the handle. I also believe it is a smooth bore, dunno that for sure, been awhile since I read up on it.

Also, the smallest 45 acp auto, was the Semmerling .


http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=215115
Yep, that's the Liberator/FP45 and it does have a smooth bore. They were made in a sheet metal factory and used to cost less then $5 bucks now they go over a grand.
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