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  #1  
Old 03-23-2009, 07:08 PM
mike56 mike56 is offline
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Best polymer 45acp pistol?




Baffeled by the glock, springfield xd and the smith mp.
Xd and mp feel better in my hand.
barrel length and weights are close, as is capacity.
Each respect site has its' favorite.

What kind of accuracy are these capable of compared to the 1911?
Reliability?
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:13 PM
Combat_Vet Combat_Vet is offline
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I have the Glock 21 and the M&P45, don't have a XD or XDM so I cannot comment on it.

The Glock 21 is huge in my hands! I much prefer the the M&P ergonomics, wish it had a greater capacity than 10 + 1 rounds but keeps the grip manageable.

I also much prefer the replacable rear slide rails that are pinned in the polymer frame on the M&P and XD as opposed to the H&K and Glock.
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  #3  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:20 PM
EX CATM EX CATM is offline
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As far as best overall goes my votes would be:
#1 HK45 as accurate as most custom tuned 1911s
#2 M&P .45 and Glock 21SF As accurate as most people
#3 HK USP as accurate as most production 1911s

All youyr choices are reported to be very reliable. I have heard of issues with one Police department with the XD .45 and 13 round mags not working well. However as far as I know this is the only issue. The XDs ran fine with 10 rounders.

Reliability:

#1 HK45, USP or Glock
#2 M&P (weak strikers that don't like being dryfired)
#3 XD45 (mag issues as well as other minor issues reported)

Accuracy:
#1 HK45
#2 M&P and USP
#3 Glock and XD

All are combat accurate. All are as accurate as 95% of shooters.
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  #4  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:37 PM
glocks rock glocks rock is offline
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My G21sf is as accurate as I am. Yes it is big in you're hand but I think it is the best COMBAT wepone made followed by the 1911. I don't like the HK 45. I've owned it and the HK45c and don't llike the DA pull.
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  #5  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:52 PM
jwoolf jwoolf is offline
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I can talk about the XD 45 acp a little... I own a compact version I use to carry with.

The only issue with the 13 round mag is that the 13th round is hard to get into the mag... when it's in there, there isn't any room left to move the carrier at all. You're probably better off using it as a 12 round mag, IMHO.

It's a VERY nice little gun. It feeds just about anything but, it will not feed SWC ammo and that is more bases on the design of the pistol. The ejecting round catches the lip on the SWC bullet in the magazine and stove pipes the round in the mag..... that's about my only gripe. I've shot several thousand rounds through mine and have not really had any failures.

It's pretty nice to have the compact version because, you can push in a 10rd mag to shorten the grip to make it easier to conceal and when you put the 13 round mag in it, it becomes a full length grip...Kind of like having the best of both worlds.

Last edited by jwoolf; 03-23-2009 at 08:54 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2009, 08:57 PM
Tugg Speedman Tugg Speedman is offline
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IMO it's between the HK45, MP45, and FNP45
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  #7  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:18 PM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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I own a G30, two G21s and a G20. I find the big Glocks to be fine range pieces. Carry a G26, though. Unless you're (yawn) shooting bullseye, I don't see any advantage of the 1911s over any of the polymer wonderguns.
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  #8  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:37 PM
HiVelSword HiVelSword is offline
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I've owned an HK USP Stainless .45

Out of the polymer .45's I shot it's the softest shooting and most accurate. I'd go as far as saying it's got a slight edge in out of the box accuracy over a SIG 220.

My current polymer .45 is an XD with the thumb safety. Only put 600 rounds through it so far but no problems with loading the mags to 13 rounds. Yes, it's a little tight getting the mag inserted but there have been no reliability issues thus far. And for $499 it's almost as soft shooting and accurate (as the USP). I'd rate its out of the box accuracy just under a SIG 220. It definitely has the smallest grip circumference than all the doublestack hi cap .45's. Before all the M&P fans say anything, I consider the Smith a mid-cap, not a hi-cap.

I've recently shot an M&P .45 w/thumb safety and it feels the best in my hand. But the reason for that is the magazine is 9mm width hence the narrower grip and reduced capacity. But no one in their right mind should ever say it "only" holds 10 rounds in the mag. It's a .45! Oh, noes! ONLY 10 rounds of .45! God help us all! I think it's the most attractive out of the polymer .45's as well. Recoil is felt a little more due to the grip width being narrower but then that's a decent trade-off. It's still not punishing by any stretch. In fact, I liked the M&P .45 so much that I've put one on my list to buy for next year. I would get it with the thumb safety though.

Those are the only polymer .45's I've shot to date. No experience with the HK .45 but I don't take any heed of the folks complaining about the DA pull. I would carry them like I carried my USP. Condition one eliminates the sub par DA pull.
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  #9  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:43 PM
jwoolf jwoolf is offline
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Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the plastic guns either, even though I own one.

It's hard to argue against them for being almost indestructible and completely dependable though. They'll hold up to abuse that a 1911 could never hold up to and remain reliable.... well, at least one that's been made to tight specs and made to shoot accurately.

Those are the reasons I carry one of these things. Virtually no muss, no fuss. Keep it pretty clean and shoot it every now and then and, you're good to go. I do shoot mine almost weekly, even if it's just a box or so, since it is my carry.

My 1911 gets shot a LOT more but because of the higher tolorances in the better fit guns, they require more work to keep reliable that something like a glock or an XD which are designed to shoot just about anything out of.

Hell, I've even screwed up batches of reloads pretty badly and the XD has fired them flawlessly. I've never had a FTE or FTF out of my XD that I didn't cause and, It's never FTF or FTE a commercial cartridge.... not even one.... AND, you can carry 14 rounds of 45 acp in a loaded one.... that's some serious firepower from a carry gun.
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  #10  
Old 03-23-2009, 11:24 PM
HiVelSword HiVelSword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwoolf View Post
AND, you can carry 14 rounds of 45 acp in a loaded one.... that's some serious firepower from a carry gun.
Order some Arredondo +3 floorplates w/power spring and you'll have 17 rounds.

I did!
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-Rorschach
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:11 AM
jmatt511 jmatt511 is offline
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Next to my 1911s, I have 2 HKs, the Expert and the Compact, both in .45. If I didn't like the 1911 so much, they would be my carry guns. (though the Expert is quite large) They are as accurate as you can get.
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:16 AM
warrior1st warrior1st is offline
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After browsing through this thread, I'm even more excited to get to pick up the HK45 I paid for a few weeks back!
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:44 AM
Mervo Mervo is offline
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Have an STI Escort and an HK USP Compact .45.

Love them both, would trust either with my life and do.
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:50 AM
Nem45 Nem45 is offline
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I have a G21SF and a G30SF and they have been 100% and pretty darn accurate. More than anyone would probably need. I still carry 1911s though. I've owned the H&K USPs the full size and the compact, didn't care for the high bore axis. Nice guns though.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2009, 01:47 AM
GovCheese GovCheese is offline
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All Three have a trigger safety. The XD also has a grip safety. Both the XD and M&P have optional thumb safeties. This may or may not make a difference to you.

Besides that, I would choose based on what fits your hand the best. I used to own an XD and it was boringly reliable and shot very well. I've shot the M&P, thought it was a good, solid gun and liked the ergonomics a bit better than the XD.
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2009, 02:37 AM
BanditSRT8 BanditSRT8 is offline
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THE best polymer .45's without a doubt are:

HK45
HK Mark 23

/thread

There is no debate on this one.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:11 AM
WalterGC WalterGC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditSRT8 View Post
THE best polymer .45's without a doubt are:

HK45
HK Mark 23

/thread

There is no debate on this one.

Hahahahahahahaha!
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:28 AM
1911OH 1911OH is offline
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When I was in LE, my department issued the G21...I have shot it extensively as I was an assistant range officer. I think it is a fine weapon, but a bit on the big/chunky side. I found recoil to be very controllable and a fun gun to shoot. But at the end of the day, I opted to carry my own P220.

No experience with the HK or XD although I have casually shot an HK USP 9mm. It (HK) was also a fine weapon and fun to shoot.

I guess for me I have always loved the single stack mag and therefore went with the P220.

My $.02!
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:44 AM
BanditSRT8 BanditSRT8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterGC View Post
Hahahahahahahaha!
Name one polymer .45 that can outperform the HK45 or Mark23 in any way then....

This I gotta hear.
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  #20  
Old 03-24-2009, 10:45 AM
HiVelSword HiVelSword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditSRT8 View Post
Name one polymer .45 that can outperform the HK45 or Mark23 in any way then....

This I gotta hear.
You're asking for proof when you have none yourself. It's your OPINION.

And the MK 23 is the Desert Eagle of .45 ACP's

I'd take a stock USP .45 over an HK45. I don't bow down to the latter just because Vickers had something to do with the development.
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"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do."

-Rorschach
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  #21  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:05 AM
maximus83 maximus83 is offline
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FWIW, I know that some here visit or belong to some of the more tactical or LE-oriented forums, and I read those regularly. Two of the better forums IMHO (due to the quality of the posts which is driven by the experience levels of the members) are: 10-8 Forums, and M4Carbine.Net. On these forums, the ONLY plastic .45's that are really considered as serious plastic .45 alternatives by the large number of folks I've seen are:

* Glock 21
* Sig 220
* H&K 45/45c
* S&W M&P

A few comments about the above:
The Glock 21 is in fact widely used in the LE community, but there are some big names out there that think the Glock 21 is seriously unreliable. One of them is Larry Vickers himself. I've seen threads over at M4Carbine.net and other places where Vickers extremely frowns on the 21. And other folks that are experienced in the industry and well known, like Todd Louis Green, and Dr. Gary Roberts (the ballistics expert) have problems with the 21. Now if you love the 21, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just passing on what I've heard.

The Sig 220 has had a big following for a long time, but with some of the recent entries to the market (like the H&K45 and the M&P), the 220 appears to be falling out of favor. People that have had them for years and like them will keep using them (and they SHOULD, if they work well for them), but my sense is that most folks who are looking for something new are turning to the newer designs. The 220 is known for being very accurate, and personally I'd use it over the Glock, but I agree with what seems to me like the general consensus, which is that the H&K and the M&P are slightly better choices.

The H&K has really taken off and become popular quickly. And the compact model is almost as popular as its larger brother. Note that there was/is an issue with the full-size H&K right out of the box, something about an awkward spot on or around the trigger guard that needs to be modified a bit. Vickers admits this and recommends that if you have a full-size .45, you send it to Bowie Tactical to modify that issue. But apart from that, the H&K is supposed to be about the best thing going in plastic .45's. You probably aren't going to find anything MORE reliable than the H&K, and it goes without saying that it'll be accurate: it's German engineering.

The M&P is the newcomer to this group, and is catching up fast. It's extremely well built with a strong frame and rails, and is probably close to the H&K in long-term reliability and durability. Yes there is the issue with the striker assembly and dry firing, but note that (a) this does NOT affect reliability under normal firing conditions, (b) there are workarounds (such as using snap caps), and (c) S&W knows of this issue and is enhancing the striker design. The M&P is extremely accurate, has already proven to be reliable (though you do need to be aware of the dry firing issue if you do a lot as in hundreds of weekly dry firing pulls), and has many nice ergonomic features that make it an excellent competitor to the H&K. Some big names in the shooting community, including Vickers himself, and Hilton Yam, have endorsed the M&P as a great choice.


Of the plastic pistols shown here, the M&P is the one I have enjoyed firing the most, although I don't yet own one in .45. I just love 1911's too much to spend limited funds on a plastic .45 right now, since (to me) it's just too inferior of a shooting experience. However, I do own M&P's in 9mm, and like them a lot, probably as much as any plastic pistol I've tried. I'd probably recommend the M&P .45 mid-size or compact, or if you don't like that, the H&K45 or 45c.
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  #22  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:39 AM
BanditSRT8 BanditSRT8 is offline
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?????????????????

The proof is all over the place.

I know mine outshoots most every gun I've ever owned. It shoots on equal with any high end custom 1911 I've ever owned.

Do a search anywhere, and that's exactly what you'll hear from everyone.

Show me anything to the contrary.

And the mark23 is one of the most highly regarded 45s ever made. YOU'RE the one who is biased by personal opinion. All you have to do is read to know that you're wrong.

And I don't care about Vickers' influence on anything. I don't buy into that BS.

Show us a more accurate .45 in polymer.
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  #23  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:40 AM
Slater Slater is offline
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The FNP-45 seems to be somewhat under the radar. Haven't heard much feedback on it at all.
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  #24  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:56 AM
HiVelSword HiVelSword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditSRT8 View Post
?????????????????

The proof is all over the place.

I know mine outshoots most every gun I've ever owned. It shoots on equal with any high end custom 1911 I've ever owned.

Do a search anywhere, and that's exactly what you'll hear from everyone.

Show me anything to the contrary.

And the mark23 is one of the most highly regarded 45s ever made. YOU'RE the one who is biased by personal opinion. All you have to do is read to know that you're wrong.

And I don't care about Vickers' influence on anything. I don't buy into that BS.

Show us a more accurate .45 in polymer.

BanditSRT8 = HK fanboi

And saying the MK 23 is one of the most highly regarded .45's ever made is a joke. Go back to the HK forum and have more kool-aid.
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-Rorschach
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  #25  
Old 03-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Stahlwerk Stahlwerk is offline
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The SIG 220 isn't plastic...

I have an HK USP45 Tactical. Its pretty cool. Massive, though. But fun. But if I was going to drop that $1k on a pistol again, I'd just go with a 1911. The match trigger is really nice though, compared to most other da/sa triggers I have experience with. I have a regular USP and a USP Compact, both in 9mm, that are great too, and I got them BOTH for the price of the Tactical.

For the best all-around plasticool .45 I'd probably suggest the USP Compact.
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