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  #1  
Old 05-27-2001, 06:05 PM
Frank Sottile Frank Sottile is offline
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9x23mm vs 10mm vs .400car-bon




Looking to buil a Kick A*s 1911 for IPSC, IDPA and Hunting. What is the standing of the following calibers;
9x23mm (my fav)?
10mm?
400car-bon?
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2001, 09:10 AM
viesczy viesczy is offline
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Of the 3, I'd go with the 10mm. At least everyone in the ammo business makes it.

I do have pistols in all three calibers and to tell the truth, the 10mm is my fave.

My 9x23 was originally a .38 S Witness and it is slightly more accurate in 9x23.

As a matter of note, CorBon's 124gr .38S and the Win 9x23 ammo are running about at a 20fps difference. 1410fps for the CorBon 124gr .38 S and 1430 for the Win 9x23, but the CorBon has had the jhps get seriously seated back into the case from the 22lb recoil spring, hence the 9x23 conversion.

My Para P12 has a 400 CorBon barrel for it. The 400CB is accurate and once the ulta tight link of the BarSto barrel was broken in, utterly reliable. The 400 CB (in what I have seen in my P12 and in a G30 converted) seems to lose more in velocity in smaller packages then the 10mm does (comparing the two 400CB pistols and my G29).

Either caliber gives you just about all you could want in terms of accuracy. I will say that my Witness (and its super smooth SA trigger) is a very accurate pistol and it was worth the $290 I paid for it, but it is *only* a 9mm!

Derek
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2001, 11:26 AM
Ford Ford is offline
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I would say that if you are wanting to use it for hunting and competition then 10mm would be the most logical choice. You can use the original high pressure loads for hunting. Maybe even check into getting a 6" barrel. Or you can load it way down for competition. I don't think that this is the most accurate round of the bunch but maybe the most versatile.

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"Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet."
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  #4  
Old 05-30-2001, 11:56 AM
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JimH JimH is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frank Sottile:
Looking to buil a Kick A*s 1911 for IPSC, IDPA and Hunting. What is the standing of the following calibers;
9x23mm (my fav)?
10mm?
400car-bon?
I would say go with what you like (though instead of the 400 Cor-Bon I would consider the .40 Super). I would also consider the .45 Super since you can use regular .45 ACP in it for competition.

I have shot a couple of critters with the 9X23 (a small 8 point buck and a small domestic pig) it was no more impressive than a .357 magnum (which aint much) but it does so with a lot less blast and recoil. Overall it is a well behaved cartridge.

Have also shot a few critters with the 10mm (and watched a bunch more in the hands of others - which is really more instructive)... it is about the same as the .45 ACP (though overall it is better on thin critters like coyotes and smaller). The .40 Super (135@1800 or 155@1550) should at least be the equal of the .45 Super which is pretty nifty.

Lots of good stuff out there for the 1911 these days.

Good hunting!
Jim Higginbotham

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  #5  
Old 06-16-2001, 09:46 PM
Frank Sottile Frank Sottile is offline
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OK, this will be post number 100, so I wanted it to be a good one and found this in the "File Drive" (yes, I have a Hard Drive of just Files and I DO save the info, THANKS). It is a reply to basicly the same question from about a year ago, the same Calibers and Dual Caliber 1911s. It is insightful and VERY imformative. I have NOT seen "DD" on this forum, but "Rosco" is still here. So to "DD" and "Rosco"....#100

Quote:
Frank,

I noticed you have got a lot of different opinions on this board, and the other ones I noticed you posting to as well. I hope you haven't confused yourself, with information overload.

I have shot 1911s in every caliber mentioned here, except the .460 Rowland and .357 Sig. For my money, the most optimum balance of power and control, is the 9x23. I like the 10mm, but it is a little too hot in the 1911, IMO. The 9x23 recoil impulse in much easier to deal with, and the sights are back on target faster. It is the easiest to do rapid double tap work with.

I hate to disagree with mi hombre Manny, but the ballistics of the 9x23 IS superior to the .45 ACP. No getting around, energy = mass x velocity (squared). The 9x23 is the ballistic equivalent of the .357 Magnum, which most will concede is the best manstopper. Some competitive shooters are even using Vektan SP2 powder, to push the 125gr 9x23 to 1550 fps. They are also getting 1400 w/147gr bullets. The case will take it, as they are (according to Winchester) the strongest centerfire pistol brass ever made. Nice bonus, the brass can be reloaded many more times than any other can be.

The 10mm is more similar to the .41 Magnum ballistics, and as I noted, too hot in the 1911 for my purposes. However, I am sorely tempted to have Brian Bilby build me a 6" STI doublestack gun. I think that would be an awesome gun, but not for CCW purposes. Which is why my bias is toward the 9x23, for that end.

Can you hunt with it? Oh, sure, Dane Burns tells me he has taken a couple deer with his, but I can think of MANY other firearms I would choose first. Ironically, the next deer I will likely shoot, will be taken with a recurve bow!

Frank, I gotta agree with Rosco, about the "swap caliber" idea. I have even had a second complete top end fitted in a different caliber before, but after it sat around (mostly) unused for several years, I ended up having a frame fitted to it, and having another gun out of the deal. To my mind, the *idea* of having the extra barrel for cheap practice is good, but in practice, the .22LR ends up being the true money saver for practice shooting. It really does accomplish the same thing, but will cost you FAR less, in the long run.

Am I gonna stop shooting .45ACP? I probably never will. In fact, I can't wait for two new custom .45s I ordered to get finished. I will never feel under gunned with a .45 -- the round DOES work VERY well. But, the 9x23 gives me slightly better ballistics, is easier to shoot fast, feeds smoother (round is loaded closer to the boreline, than the fatter .45 is), carries more rounds (10+1). Plus I have some nifty J-frames that are also chambered in 9x23, that make for a truly caliber compatible backup piece.

Bottom line, the 1911 is still the finest fighting handgun design every created. Any of the calibers you mentioned would be OK, but I gotta give the edge to the 9x23. IMO, the 9x23 is the point of diminishing returns for balancing stopping power, with controllability, in a 1911 package. Try it, you'll like it!

DD
THANKS to all for all the Help and Knowelge that you have past on, your words do NOT fall on deaf ears.




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"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2001, 09:38 AM
Patrick Sweeney Patrick Sweeney is offline
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I have shot every caliber a 1911 is made in, and even built one in a non-standard caliber for the fun of it. (.30 Luger)
If you want a gun for competition and hunting, build a .45 for competition, and get a .460 Rowland barrel fitted to it. The 460 delivers heavier bullets at higher velocities than other calibers, and the only swapping is barrels and recoil springs.
The Rowland beats the 45 Super, and makes the .45 +P look wimpy.
You can load the Rowland using another toolhead and standard dies, and won't have to worry about getting the ammo mixed up.
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2001, 08:26 AM
MuzzleBlast MuzzleBlast is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Sweeney:
I have shot every caliber a 1911 is made in, and even built one in a non-standard caliber for the fun of it. (.30 Luger)
Are you the Patrick Sweeney that writes the gunsmithing books?

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  #8  
Old 07-09-2001, 08:44 AM
Patrick Sweeney Patrick Sweeney is offline
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The same.

The latest book (If I may be so modest as to bring something to the groups attention) is on the 1911. Due out early Fall.

If you really want wierd, I have figured out a way to get a 1911 chambered in 8mm Nambu. Why? Because we can, that's why.

Seriously, the 460 Rowland delivers honest 44 Mag ballistics. a 230 JHP at 1350 fps. Definitely build it with a comp! The more efficient the better. If you don't you'll beat the snot out of the gun in short order.
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