1911Forum
Forum   Reviews   Rules   Legal   Site Supporters & Donations   Advertise


Go Back   1911Forum > 1911 Manufacturers > Other 1911's


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 08-10-2008, 07:08 AM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078



Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
This is my MKI CM sn C214xx which I figure comes from late 1979 or early 80 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

tipoc
I believe that is a MK IV not a MK I.

The barrel appears to be the more modern tapered barrel, the original MK I guns had a barrel that had a 'cone' brazed (?) on the end of the barrel so it tapered on both the bottom and the top. The MK IV guns had a spec made barrel and the barrel is tapers back from the top/front of the barrel.

I don't have complete information on the serial numbers, but it is my understanding that the first 1600 (give or take) guns were "cut and weld" guns, those started with serial number 2001. Roughly the first 500 guns used the 'coned' barrels. Sometime around mid-1977 the "I" prefix numbers began to be used on the serial numbers, later followed by other letters. I don't know for sure, but I believe the MK I guns did not have a letter prefix as part of their serial number. I do know that I have never seen a MK I gun with a letter prefix (but I'm NOT a real expert, just a hobbyist who likes Combat Masters). Most MK I guns also had the early style hammer and early style safety too; your gun has the later style. It is possible those were changed at some point to make the gun appear more modern like the MK IV guns. But visually you have a MK IV barrel, a MK IV safety and a MK IV thumb safety. I'd guess you have a MK IV gun, which is good, because most of the MK I guns should not be shot because they are pretty fragile by comparison due to the 'cut and weld' process used when they were made.
__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"

Last edited by melensdad; 08-10-2008 at 07:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-10-2008, 01:47 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Redwood City, Calif.
Posts: 2,501
Thanks Melensdad. I'll drop by the yahoo site for confirmation.

tipoc
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-10-2008, 05:41 PM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
Mk I and Mk IV guns were different in finish and sights only. Mk I being matte blue with fixed (though driftable) sights, and Mk IV being with polished sides on the slides and that rediculous "Combat Selector" adjustable sight. (the one with the sharp edged blades that cut both skin and clothing).

Mk I's ultimately came to be made with every kind of letter prefix: I, D, and then C.

When cut and weld guns were made, there was only one kind of blued finish. Those guns have come to be considered Mk I's, but weren't called such until later, when the line expanded, and Mk designations were given to the different models.

If I have my history right, two piece coned barrels continued to be used even after the cut and weld frames and slides were discontinued. There were two different cone types, as the design evolved. Then came the one piece stainless steel barrels. By the time that the Mk designations appeared, I believe the company was using only the one piece stainless steel barrels. Then the one piece barrel style evolved so that the cone didn't go all the way around, but was just on the top portion.

Last edited by Schuyler; 08-10-2008 at 05:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-12-2008, 07:00 AM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
Mk I and Mk IV guns were different in finish and sights only. Mk I being matte blue with fixed (though driftable) sights, and Mk IV being with polished sides on the slides and that rediculous "Combat Selector" adjustable sight. . . .
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that they stopped MK I production and replaced it with MK IV production at some point. The Detonics factory allowed their guns to 'evolve' and as they improved the design/functions they changed the models. So over time I believe they simply improved the MK I guns and the new guns were then called MK IV guns? MK IV guns had polished slide sides, but not always adjustable 'combat selector' sights.

Honestly at this point I'm now more confused

The serial number of this gun seems like it would be too late to be a MK I (probably made in 1980 or '81?), but as I stated before, a) I'm more confused and b) I'm not a Detonics historian, just a hobbyist.
__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-12-2008, 10:20 AM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
melensdad, here's how to "un-confuse" yourself...

Just re-read what I wrote, and keep in mind that the Mk I was produced whenever blued guns were being produced.

I believe the Mk designations were started when stainless steel production began. Up until then the guns were just called by their finishes; i.e. blued, nickeled, and chromed guns. I think it was because there were shiny stainless guns as well as matte stainless, that the company figured they could get more sales if there were shiny blued guns in the lineup too. The Mk designations helped to tell them all apart. Besides, it was kind of a standard in the industry to use Mk designations... Colt, Ruger, etc all used them.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-12-2008, 08:35 PM
dsf dsf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CA - for now.
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
Mk I and Mk IV guns were different in finish and sights only. Mk I being matte blue with fixed (though driftable) sights, and Mk IV being with polished sides on the slides and that rediculous "Combat Selector" adjustable sight. (the one with the sharp edged blades that cut both skin and clothing).

Mk I's ultimately came to be made with every kind of letter prefix: I, D, and then C.

When cut and weld guns were made, there was only one kind of blued finish. Those guns have come to be considered Mk I's, but weren't called such until later, when the line expanded, and Mk designations were given to the different models.

If I have my history right, two piece coned barrels continued to be used even after the cut and weld frames and slides were discontinued. There were two different cone types, as the design evolved. Then came the one piece stainless steel barrels. By the time that the Mk designations appeared, I believe the company was using only the one piece stainless steel barrels. Then the one piece barrel style evolved so that the cone didn't go all the way around, but was just on the top portion.
Not sure when mine was made (serial # I 50XX) but it has the two piece barrel, hood is marked "Colt.45 Auto. NM" top line & "Mk IV/Series '70" on 2nd line - line 2 refers to Colt, not Detonics of course. Hammer spur is J type and the barrel/frame isn't welded.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-12-2008, 11:13 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Redwood City, Calif.
Posts: 2,501
I went by the Detonics collectors site and believe Schuyler is correct. Looks like this CM was produced in the early 80s prior to the MK designations.

tipoc
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-13-2008, 11:36 AM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
dsf and tipoc,

You have made my case for me (thank you). The two piece barrels were still being used in one piece slides and one piece frames. If you scour the Yahoo Collector's site and Bigger Hammer site, (and some of the posts there by Deeton are rather enlightening), you can figure out stuff, like about how Detonics in Seattle bought Colt NM barrels and shortend them and welded on cones in order to keep production rolling.

If I got my info right, then I think the I 50xx gun would have been produced in the 70's. A "C" prefix would have been made in the 80's.

Schuyler
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-29-2008, 03:45 PM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
This thread is getting stale again so went out and I picked up a new gun. Likely will become a new carry gun for me if it proves to be reliable. This is my first NON-antique Detonics Combat Master. All of my past collecting has been with the original Detonics guns, from the original ownership of the company, when it was based in Washington state.

This one is a DETONICS USA gun, made in Georgia. The company that made this gun is also out of business. There was another company in between this gun's ownership and the ones that I actually collect, I don't own any of those, and really have no desire to collect them either. I only purchased this because I've been shooting so much lately that I figured I should probably stop beating the snot out of my old guns so I bought this as a shooter and as carry gun.

A couple things I've noticed right off, this gun feels 'sharper' than the original guns. The mainspring housing is steel, and checkered versus the original rubber units. The grips are also sharp, but no sharper than the walnut checkered grips on the original guns. These grips are much prettier than the original grips! The slide release is checkered with a fairly sharp checkering, despite being sharper than the original guns it is easier to use, it may also be slightly larger? One thing I also noticed right off is that the ejection port does not have the fancy scallop in the lower rear like the originals. I thought that was a nice touch on the original guns.

One improvement made on this gun is the front sight. It sits in a dovetail, can be replaced with a tritium sight, and I think is better than the milled in front sights on the original guns.

I've not shot this yet. Soon!





__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-30-2008, 12:42 AM
tipoc tipoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Redwood City, Calif.
Posts: 2,501
Nice gun MD.

The "No Chat" thing is getting abused but I'd like to know the range report. Ya can always PM me. Or since you started the thread you can abuse it, if ya want.

tipoc
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-30-2008, 12:42 PM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
Yeah, looks nice,

And I'd like a range report too!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-30-2008, 09:18 PM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
Fully engraved Combat Master, been sitting in my safe for a little while, took it out today for some photos. The grips are custom made linen micarta with the Detonics logo carved into them but I've got another set, a very special set being made. So I'll drag this out for more photos in a few months when those grips arrive.

Until then, enjoy this gun porn







__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-31-2008, 09:12 PM
HighVelocity HighVelocity is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW TX
Age: 46
Posts: 681
Just picked up my first Detonics pistol. It's box stock except for the Tyler's grips and blue steel checkered MSH.

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-31-2008, 10:23 PM
dsf dsf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CA - for now.
Posts: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schuyler View Post
dsf and tipoc,

You have made my case for me (thank you). The two piece barrels were still being used in one piece slides and one piece frames. If you scour the Yahoo Collector's site and Bigger Hammer site, (and some of the posts there by Deeton are rather enlightening), you can figure out stuff, like about how Detonics in Seattle bought Colt NM barrels and shortend them and welded on cones in order to keep production rolling.
If I got my info right, then I think the I 50xx gun would have been produced in the 70's. A "C" prefix would have been made in the 80's.

Schuyler
Just FYI, I spent last weekend at the Reno Gun show and took note that many of the older Detonics I saw for sale had the Colt NM marked 2 piece cone barrels. Prices on these were in the $600.00 - $700.00 range.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-01-2008, 01:30 PM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
Took the new Detonics USA gun out to the back yard to do some shooting and must say that I am very pleased with this little gun. The new "Georgia" gun is the stainless steel gun, the blued gun is an original Combat Master.


I tried a couple different ammo types and had no problems with anything feeding, firing or ejecting. This is, so far, a 100% gun . . . but it has to prove itself with a lot more ammo before I'll declare it a 100% gun! I even tried to jam it up by alternating different bullet types, jacketed, lead, etc in several different magazines and had no problems.

I noticed it feels/shoots differently than the old guns. The steel mainspring housing is checkered and you feel the gun grip your hand under recoil. The rubber checkered mainspring housings on most of the original Combat Masters don't have the same sensation.

I liked the fact that the trailing edge of the front sight is serrated, it makes it easier to get your eye on the front sight picture. That is a nice improvement over the original guns.

The thumb safety is VERY easy to disengage, but very difficult to engage. I like the light touch needed to slip the safety off, it is very light but not so light that it will slip off while in a holster. I did NOT like how difficult it is to engage. It takes a concerted effort to flip the safety on and I think that should be easier.

Overall this gun has promise to be a primary carry gun.
__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-02-2008, 02:53 PM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
Melensdad,

Thanks for the range report. Sounds as if you have a pretty nice combat master to add to your collection.

And wow, that engraved piece is very sweet! I saw an engraved CM years ago at a gun show, and yours does have some resemblence. The next time that show was held, the owner said he sold it to a guy in Florida. So, any chance you live in FLA, or bought it from someone who lives there?

HighVelocity,

Does your CM have a letter prefix S/N? How does it shoot?

dsf,

600 - 700 sounds high for a two piece barrel CM, unless there's something special about them. Usually the average stainless ones I've seen go for about that much.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-02-2008, 03:46 PM
HighVelocity HighVelocity is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW TX
Age: 46
Posts: 681
Schuyler, yes, it has a D prefix. I have checked it for function only as I only had a few minutes at the range. So, it runs but as for accuracy, I'll have to spend some quality range time with it. Hopefully this weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-02-2008, 09:15 PM
Ironhandjohn Ironhandjohn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 246
MD:


You need some tooled and engraved leather from El Paso Saddlery for that engraved CM of yours!! A huge Stetson and aviator glasses would also help the burgeoning 'Texas Ranger' style, too...



As usual, cool pics!!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:21 AM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
to HighVelocity,

Is it a 9xxx series D prefix? If you check the Yahoo Collector's site, Deeton says those were the best blued guns to come out of the Seattle/Bellevue factory. Apparently they almost never had to be returned for service or repairs.

to Melensdad,

I think Ironhand is suggesting that instead of being just a safe queen, you should use your engraved beauty for a "BBQ Gun" as well.

Schuyler
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:33 AM
Schuyler Schuyler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
to HighVelocity,

Is it a 9xxx series D prefix? If you check the Yahoo Collector's site, Deeton says those were the best blued guns to come out of the Seattle/Bellevue factory. Apparently they almost never had to be returned for service or repairs.

to Melensdad,

I think Ironhand is suggesting that instead of being just a safe queen, you should use your engraved beauty for a "BBQ Gun" as well.

Schuyler
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:53 PM
HighVelocity HighVelocity is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW TX
Age: 46
Posts: 681
It's D7xxx. I'd like to check out the yahoo site you mentioned. Got a link?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-05-2008, 01:01 PM
tipoc tipoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Redwood City, Calif.
Posts: 2,501
Here...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DetonicsCollectors/

This is also useful.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/detonics/

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; 09-05-2008 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-13-2008, 04:02 PM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
Well it is raining outside so I can't walk out to go shooting, best 2nd option is to go play with guns . . . I dug this one out of the back corner of the safe. Its a hard chromed Detonics Combat Master MK III. The grips are not original, I do have original grips for it, but I don't like them! For that matter I don't like these grips either. I've got a very special set on order, the stone mason has been working on the new grips for the past 2.5 months, hope to have them in a week or so. But until then, this is a prelude look.
__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-14-2008, 06:37 PM
mowzer98 mowzer98 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 224
melensdad,

Based on your photos, I believe you have mistaken a nickel Mk II for a chrome Mk III. The chrome guns were a dull, non reflective, whitish color. (Quite like Metalife and other similar chrome based finishes). Chrome CMs were not polished. Your pics look slightly yellowish, and of course, shiny. As such, (at the very least), not a factory chrome job. Most probably nickel, and therefore, a Mk II.

Very good looking though! Nice wallet too.
__________________
Mauser98
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-14-2008, 06:54 PM
melensdad melensdad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana, hope to retire to Alaska. My wife wants to retire to Belize.
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzer98 View Post
melensdad,

Based on your photos, I believe you have mistaken a nickel Mk II for a chrome Mk III. The chrome guns were a dull, non reflective, whitish color. (Quite like Metalife and other similar chrome based finishes). Chrome CMs were not polished. Your pics look slightly yellowish, and of course, shiny. As such, (at the very least), not a factory chrome job. Most probably nickel, and therefore, a Mk II.

Very good looking though! Nice wallet too.
I also have a Nickel MK II that finish looks totally different. This one is definitely chrome, not sure if it is factory chromed or not.
__________________
Visit my Antique Snowcat, political, gun & general discussion Forums

St Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners
Father John Corapi, "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.


NOTICE TO USERS OF THIS SITE: By continuing to use this site, you certify that you have read and agree to abide by the Legal Terms of Use. All information, data, text or other materials ("Content") posted to this site by any users are the sole responsibility of those users. 1911Forum does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity, or quality of such Content.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2011 1911Forum.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved