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  #1  
Old 02-29-2008, 01:19 AM
bushell873 bushell873 is offline
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Deactivate the Beavertail?




My gunsmith is almost finished a tactical single stack build. I went to have a look at it before he fits the sights and blues it. He has pinned the beavertail and says he does on most guns unless the owner requests it NOT be done. Opinions please on whether or not to do this.

Thanks

BUSH
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  #2  
Old 02-29-2008, 05:58 AM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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The grip safety is a good thing. Don't pin it.

Joe
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  #3  
Old 02-29-2008, 06:49 AM
kimberguy2004 kimberguy2004 is offline
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I've never seen how one is pinned. If it's not visible, I'd have him remove the pin and I'd take/send it to someone else to be finished. For a gunsmith to remove/disable an safety on any weapon, with or without permission, if not illegal, is certainly unethical. If anyone is injured with that gun under any circumstances, you could be held liable. If it's a play gun it may not be a big deal, but if he drilled a visible hole in my STI without my permission, I think he'd be buying me a frame.
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  #4  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:10 AM
Im Neero Im Neero is offline
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Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I personally don't think the grip safety really does that much anyways.
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  #5  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:19 AM
davidalyn davidalyn is offline
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Some USPSA/IPSC shooters have their grip safety pinned down to ensure failure to fully depress the grip safety does not prevent the trigger from being pulled. At the speeds they pull the trigger (5 to 6 shots per second) anything that impeeds trigger movement could cost them the match. Remember these are guns that are normally dedicated to shooting games not self defense.

You have to decide if de-activating a safety device is a good approach for you.

Pinning the grip safety consists of drilling a small hole in either top of the mainspring housing or the bottom of the grip safely (where the two come together). A small pin is then inserted in the hole, when the pieces come together during assembly, the pin locks the grip safety in the depressed position. The pin can easily be removed and the grip safety will operate normally.

I find it strange that the gunsmith would just pin your grip safety with out at least asking you first.

Last edited by davidalyn; 02-29-2008 at 07:21 AM. Reason: can't spell
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  #6  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:21 AM
kimberguy2004 kimberguy2004 is offline
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It prevents the gun from accidentally firing in the event the trigger is unintentionally touched, maybe as in drawing, holstering, a lady pulling it out of her purse, to name a couple. Some people put Negligent Discharges on their list of bad things and like to have everything on their weapon working as designed. I think the lawyers have brought a lot of that around..
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  #7  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:23 AM
kbear38S kbear38S is offline
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My match guns have the grip safety pinned. My other guns do not.
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:25 AM
Hammer1 Hammer1 is offline
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Back in the days of yore when Colonel Cooper ran Gunsite...

Many grip safeties on 1911s got pinned.

But then Cooper never was too politically correct.

People on the firing line would repeatedly have their guns not fire, not just one person in a year, but a noticeable number per day.

Pin the grip safety and problem was solved.

John Moses Browning's original automatic pistol designs did not have a grip safety. Think the 1905 did not have one. The grip safety was an addition to the 1911 made by the army in consideration of cavalry charges -- something we don't do much any more.

When I charge on horseback I use a Colt SAA leaving the chamber under the hammer empty. Unless there's lots of Indains.





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  #9  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:43 AM
Grumbler Grumbler is offline
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Negligent discharge...unsafe...

Thumb safety still there? Not putting the booger picker on the trigger thingy until ready to shoot?

How safe would you be if the grip safety did not let the pistol go bang when you absolutely NEEDED a projectile to launch downrange ASAP?
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  #10  
Old 02-29-2008, 07:59 AM
kimberguy2004 kimberguy2004 is offline
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I understand it's done on play guns and why, and I don't have an issue with that. My problem is a gunsmith that takes it upon himself to deactivate ANY safety without his customer's permission..
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  #11  
Old 02-29-2008, 08:31 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Grip safeties can be made to work at various levels of engagement.
The arm on the right side (inside) can be cut to minimize engagement.
On my duty COLT in the 80s, I did this and welded up a "memory hump" on the bottom like Ed Brown eventually did so that if you gripped the gun the grip safety would release but it still wouldn't fire if you were not touching the gun. It's a delicate procedure but works. I have my IPSC guns deactivated but do this procedure to carry guns. I've gone as far to weld up the bump on the grip safety twice as high as the factory guns and then buff it into a comfortable shape for my grip. My grip is higher than most and I often have to cut down the right side safety to keep from bruising my trigger finger knuckle. With that high a grip I often miss a grip safety without a bump...
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2008, 08:39 AM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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Bush, what are you going to use the gun for?

Joe
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  #13  
Old 02-29-2008, 09:15 AM
Irishlad Irishlad is offline
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Quote:
It prevents the gun from accidentally firing in the event the trigger is unintentionally touched, maybe as in drawing, holstering, a lady pulling it out of her purse, to name a couple.
If you mean the grip safety, each case you described the grip safety would be depressed by the hand. Consequently, of no value in preventing an AD/ND.

The only way I can see a grip safety preventing an AD is if you "twirl" a cocked and unlocked 1911 with your finger like you see in the "cowboy" movies.
It must be something with the horses/cowboys that like grip safeties.

Of course, I'm not advocating pinning a grip safety and my comments do not include the Kimber/S&W "swartz" type FP safeties...as poorly designed as they are!
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  #14  
Old 02-29-2008, 12:54 PM
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Shoot the gun with the safety unpinned. Not just dry-fire, but draw-and-shoot, preferably under real match conditions. If you "miss" the safety even once, leave it pinned. I'd venture to say the majority of competitors pin their grip safeties, just as they disable the slide stop, as the gun not working when it's supposed to, is a much greater liability than the hypothetical benefits of the (disabled) features. The problem is, with the ultra-high hold beavertail, and ultra-high hold front strap contouring on most competition pistols, your hand is positioned above the pivot point of the safety, so gripping the gun levers the safey off, rather than depressing it.
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  #15  
Old 02-29-2008, 01:44 PM
45 nut 45 nut is offline
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by far better off leaving it alone and learn how to use a 1911 the way it was designed
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:58 PM
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SAWBONES SAWBONES is offline
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Blah, blah, blah.

The grip safety is a problem, if you ever fail to naturally and reliably depress it sufficiently to permit firing when the trigger is pressed, on your CCW or home defense gun, including with grabbing the gun in a "panic grip" or other less-than-perfect grip.

The GS is a feature which potentially interferes with the function of a piece of lifesaving equipment, especially so for those who carry in Condition One, and who therefore must depress the thumb safety before trigger operation is possible, and who leave the thumb on top of the safety lever after depressing it.

The alternatives are to:
1. pin the grip safety,
2. get the Novak modification which creates a unitary backstrap (does away with the grip safety and its function altogether),
3.) build a great big hump onto the GS so that the palm of the hand always depresses it,
4.) shoot with a "thumb below the safety" grip, which requires repositioning of the thumb after depressing the thumb safety and therefore unavoidably slows pistol operation,
5.) stop using a 1911 for defense, and get some different sort of gun which has no GS issues, and
6.) carry in Condition Two or Condition Three, with the attendant complications & problems associated with those carry modes.

I believe most here would be unhappy with choices 4, 5 and 6. I personally choose option 3. I wouldn't mind trying option 2, but it's too expensive.

The real issue here is NOT one of safety, but of the likelihood that an unscrupulous attorney, manipulating an ignorant and uneducable jury, would paint you, who would in truth be the righteous defender of self or family, as a wanton, careless, even bloodthirsty person for sake of having "deactivated a safety device" on a gun used in a shooting. (It goes without saying that part of said attorney's case would be the allegation that you fired in error because of the GS having been deactivated, even if that were blatantly and obviously untrue, and you fired willfully and purposefully in order to defend life and health.)

We all know this to be nonsense, and apart from the Springfield Armory XD derivative and its parent gun, the Croation HS2000, there aren't any currently produced handguns other than the 1911 which even employ a GS so far as I know (and the GS on the plastic pistols basically can't fail to be depressed with a shooting grip IME ), so it can't be a necessary part on modern handguns.
Having to worry about it is a lawyer-created problem!
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  #17  
Old 02-29-2008, 03:56 PM
NonConformist NonConformist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberguy2004 View Post
It prevents the gun from accidentally firing in the event the trigger is unintentionally touched, maybe as in drawing, holstering, a lady pulling it out of her purse, to name a couple. Some people put Negligent Discharges on their list of bad things and like to have everything on their weapon working as designed. I think the lawyers have brought a lot of that around..
Thats user failure not weapon failure

Keep your finger of the trigger until your sights are on the target.

All anyone has to do is follow the 4 rules and there wont be any problems
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  #18  
Old 02-29-2008, 06:21 PM
scalinghammer scalinghammer is offline
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I have several 1911 style guns and most if not all have the grip safety pined or otherwise deactivated as I have found that if I get a good grip the grip safety prevents the gun from firing. If I needed the gun for self-defense I want it to work. In competition when I am under some but not much strain the grip safety will lock me out. At the range for relaxed target shooting very rarely does the GS fail. I guess it all depends on how your experience leads you.
Ed
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  #19  
Old 02-29-2008, 08:10 PM
Hammer1 Hammer1 is offline
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From Novak's website


The website picture did not copy, but here's the script.


Custom made for a father and his daughter. This set solved a problem for them both. The Colt .45's were designed to help facilitate the use of such a large pistol by not only the father but also by his smaller framed daughter. All efforts were used to fit the hand of them both and allow for control and comfort. It took over 8 months to work out the details, fabricate the proto-types, and test the final product. It was displayed for the 1st time at Shot 2005, and is installed on the pair shown. The Novak One Piece Back Strap for the Colt 1911.

I refer to it as "THE ANSWER". Look for more information in the near future.

Wayne Novak

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Old 03-01-2008, 11:44 AM
ken_mays ken_mays is offline
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For a while Dane Burns was pinning grip safeties by cutting down a shock-buff to fit over the top of the MSH to keep the grip safety pushed in.

It's a quick, cheap, and easily reversible mod.
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2008, 02:11 PM
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That's what I've been doing. With proper trimming, the hole in the buff aligns perfectly with the bore of the mainspring housing, and the resiliency of the plastic traps the grip safety. To a limited extent, you can alter how far in the grip safety will go, to you make the grip circumference a little bit bigger or smaller.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:22 AM
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TimWarner TimWarner is offline
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I shoot open USPSA, but I still don't deactivate any of my grip safeties.

I just slap a piece of hockey tape around it to hold it down. that way if for some reason I want it, I can just take the tape off.

When you get a really high grip on a 1911 sometimes your palm isn't in the right place to depress the grip safety enough to deactivate it. Most times a "memory groove" type safety fixes this.
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:53 AM
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Tom Freeman Tom Freeman is offline
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All my 1911s have pinned/disabled grip safeties. All my game guns and carry gun.

I have skinny hands with no meat on the inside and when I hold on, memory bump or not, I am not getting the GS pushed fully. It would take a 1/2 inch think glop of JB weld stuck on there for me to depress it every time
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Old 03-10-2008, 07:28 AM
Mick0610 Mick0610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimWarner View Post
I shoot open USPSA, but I still don't deactivate any of my grip safeties.

I just slap a piece of hockey tape around it to hold it down. that way if for some reason I want it, I can just take the tape off.

When you get a really high grip on a 1911 sometimes your palm isn't in the right place to depress the grip safety enough to deactivate it. Most times a "memory groove" type safety fixes this.

"Hockey Tape"!!!! Why not "Football Tape" or "Baseball Tape"???
Oh wait, I see you're from the frozen north! Been there....there is problably more "Hockey tape" laying around than anything else!
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:22 PM
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I remember going into a big sporting goods store, and asking, while surrounded by skateboards, for "skateboard tape"; the kid who worked there looked at me like I had two heads. "OK, do you have stuff that comes on a roll, that's rough on one side, and sticky on the other side?" More blank looks. I was beginning to think "skateboard tape" was like "snipe hunt", and the joke was on me.
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