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  #1  
Old 01-07-2008, 07:40 PM
Round Dial Round Dial is offline
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Help w/40 S&W (165gr) Load Data & Powder




Iím new to reloading and have only reloaded 45ACP at this time. Iíd like to reload 40S&W next, as it is the round that I practice with the most. Iím shooting an HK USP Compact and reloading with a Dillon 550. My goal for the 40 reloads would be to replicate the feel of my defensive load of Speer 165gr. Gold Dots. (1150 fps muzzle velocity). Iíd also like to try my hand at IDPA. I imagine any load that would replicate the feel of the Speer loads would meet the power requirement for IDPA. I have read as much as I can about the problems reloading 40 S&W and would like to remain below maximum loadings for safety reasons. I have noticed that my powder measure can fluctuate + 0.1 gr and I will shoot in temperatures from 40 to 100 degrees. In accordance with the warning on Alliantís website, I contacted HK to determine whether their barrels are fully supported. Their response was that only revolver barrels are fully supported. Iím leaning towards Power Pistol powder because it appears to burn clean, has been recommended as a good powder, and has good temperature stability. These are not my observations, but opinions that I have read online. Iím currently using Clays for my 45 loads and would like to use a different brand powder for the 40 loads, as I would think that there would be less of a chance of a powder mixup if I use a different brand, i.e. Alliant. I plan on using Rainier 165 gr bullets because of the lack of leading and cost/availability compromise. Iíd like to use 165 gr as that is the same weight bullet as I carry. I have found little data on 165 gr bullets. Alliantís website skips from 155 gr to 180 gr. I read online that 6.3 gr of Power Pistol should be a good load, but I have been unable to find 2 other published sources to back this up.

Iím rather attached to my hands and eyes and have no desire to have a handgun blow up in my hands. I will work the load up carefully, but Iím frustrated on the lack of 165 gr data.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2008, 07:58 PM
yoshidaex yoshidaex is offline
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www.handloads.com

theres a few samples for 165 grainers.
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:25 PM
satx40 satx40 is offline
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Going by "The Compete Reloading Manual for the 10mm .40 S&W" Speer recommends 5.4gr of TiteGroup for the 165 GD HP. They also list 5.0gr for the law enforcement version (.40 Lite).
This is the powder that I have been using in my Para 16.40. It shoots well, is not position sensitive and doesn't appear to be temperature sensitive. I talked to one of the techs at Hodgdon's and he said that it can be loaded down as light as you like with no problem and is not position sensitive.
The powder runs as clean as can be expected. I started using it when the price of Viht N320 and N340 went too high.
It meters well in the 550.

HTH

Art
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2008, 07:51 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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not opinion

Tested fact: Alliant Power Pistol can be superb in the 40 S&W.

Suggested 165g start load: 6.3g Power Pistol, OAL 1.130"+/-.005", CCI500, sized case, LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die.
Do NOT over-crimp; just remove the 'bell'.

(You can safely use 170g data.)
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2008, 11:43 AM
Round Dial Round Dial is offline
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Thanks for all of the replies.

Weshoot, is 6.3g the recommended starting load for jacketed or lead bullets?

Referencing Alliantís 170g data, 7.3g is max. If you reduce that by 10% for plated bullets (per Rainierís instructions) a max load would be 6.57g. Obviously, there would be a bit of a safety factor built in because of the heavier bullet weight.

When interpolating data, what is the best way to stay below max loads? I read one of your other posts about using a chronograph to stay below max loads. I assume the best way to do this would be measure the velocity of some factory ammunition and compare that to what your gun will shoot and then use that as a correction to the reloading data.

Referencing handloads.com, one user is using 7.2g of PP for 1090fps and another is using 7.5 gr for 1130fps. (both are jackets bullets). Correcting these for plated bullets would yield 6.5g and 6.75g respectively. Only one gun type is listed, a Glock 22. I believe this gun has a barrel 0.5Ē longer than mine (USPc). If I were to use 6.7g and 1100 fps as max, does that seem right to you guys?

Sorry for all of the analysis, but Iím a noob and donít want to flirt with disaster. From what Iíve read, it really seems like Power Pistol would fit my goal best.

One last question. From what I have been able to gather online, the USP (and P2000) has a ďfully supported barrel.Ē Is that correct?
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2008, 07:52 PM
Round Dial Round Dial is offline
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Bump

Just hoping to get a little more input.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2008, 03:32 AM
ColtLover ColtLover is offline
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Montana Gold 165 FMJ FP
5.5 grains N340
1000 fps
5" STI
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2008, 09:07 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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safety first: "interpolation"

My 6.3g suggestion is from my personal data, good for any construction.
I would anticipate this load will function reliably, yet with reduced recoil impulse compared to higher-velocity loads.

Normally safe (but NOT always) to use next-heavier bullet data.

Alliant shows 7.3g MAX using a 170g XTP.

Speer #13 shows start 7.0g / MAX 7.8g with their 165g Gold Dot, a 'plated' bullet.

Might also call Sierra Tech-Line for 165g / Power Pistol advice.

IME when I've "interpolated", I've erred completely on the caution-this-gun-is-expensive side.
Assume nothing, as each gun is utterly unique.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2008, 02:15 PM
Round Dial Round Dial is offline
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Thanks Weshoot2. I'm ordering a chronograph today and am hoping to pick up some Power Pistol this week. I'll post my finding when I get a chance to load some up and go to the range.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2008, 06:43 PM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Dial View Post
I imagine any load that would replicate the feel of the Speer loads would meet the power requirement for IDPA. Thanks.
The power factor requirement for .40 S&W in IDPA use is Minor PF equivalent, so is only 125, as there really is no major .40 load in IDPA....

The fully loaded .40 will be competing against 9mm and other's .40 handloads loaded down to approximate .38 Special ballistics. (155 grainers at 800 fps, or 180 grainers at a mere 700 fps)
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2008, 06:55 PM
littlebuf littlebuf is offline
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i just reloaded some 40's with red dot and it was way to fast burning i was all over the place so ill be trying a mid burning powder as ive read that works better in the 40's
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2008, 08:30 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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3.8--4.0g Bullseye / 180g often makes a nice 'soft' accurate Minor load.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Rico567 Rico567 is offline
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I shoot nothing but 165 gr. bullets in .40 S&W, mostly Rainier FP and RNFP, and for "business," Gold Dots. I have found 5.9 gr. of Hodgdon's Universal* to be a fine powder in this chambering, and I use WSP primers, in a variety of cases.

You may take whatever advice you wish, but from my research I prefer to steer clear of fast-burning powders in .40. Chamberings that have a higher working pressure of @35,000 psi, like .40 &W and 9mm Para. perform best with a medium burning rate powder such as Power Pistol, Universal*, Unique, WSF, 540. When starting out in .40, I tested the 165 gr bullet with all of the above except Power Pistol, and found that they all performed well. Universal gave me a clean burn and slightly better accuracy than WSF, the runner-up. So I went with Universal* and stuck with it.

I have no experience wih target or "gamesmanship" low-recoil loads that are cooked up from fast-burning powders and heavy bullets (180-200 gr.). I think that this is a hazardous enterprise indeed in .40 S&W, so I do not do it, nor will I comment on it. What I load is a "business" or "Law enforcement lite" load that will develop 1150+ FPS out of my G24.

*A note on the use of the Hodgdon brand "Universal." Hodgdon developed three powders using a common technology some years ago, and they made a horrible marketing decision to call them the "Clays Family" of powders. They named them "Clays," "Universal Clays," & "International Clays." The confusion arising from this naming has been responsible for misloading of ammunition (although I've never done it, and the reloader must, of course, bear ultimate responsibility for what he manufactures), and is as far as I am concerned constitutes a ticking time bomb. Someone either has or will eventually blow up a gun by using Universal or International data with Clays powder. I always refer to the two slower-burning powders only by the "other" name, and only the fastest (which is my go-to powder for 12 ga. and .45 ACP) as "Clays."
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2008, 09:39 AM
MSgt Dotson MSgt Dotson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico567 View Post
II have no experience wih target or "gamesmanship" low-recoil loads that are cooked up from fast-burning powders and heavy bullets (180-200 gr.). I think that this is a hazardous enterprise indeed in .40 S&W, so I do not do it, nor will I comment on it. "
180 grain bullets at 700 fps and 155 grainers at 800 fps are not dangerous, but simply mild loads with less recoil than most 9mm pistols, and are great for introducing a 12 or 13 year old or new shooter to .40 ! Powders such as Titegroup and even 231 are fine for .40 Lite loads. Recoil approximately the same as a .38 Special in a medium frame revolver...nice!

I'd say sensible .40-Lite loads are about as dangerous as loading down the .44 Mag to .44 Special levels....
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2008, 10:14 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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I wonder....

What folks would think about my 220g 40 S&W loads.....

I've tried 700X, Nitro 100, AA2 and AA2 Imp, W231, Bullseye, WSL, among others, in the 40 S&W.

Not every load 'feels the need for excessive speed', ay?
LOL

ps right now, for my 40 S&W 1911, I'm using WAP under a 175g LSWC....
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2008, 10:58 AM
slow ride slow ride is offline
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155gr Rainier, 5.7gr Unique= 1 sweet load.

I've loaded thousands and love it; great for IDPA and range practice. Powerful enough, and smooth enough for double tapping plates at 25yds.
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