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  #1  
Old 01-05-2008, 05:43 PM
Chris Haas Chris Haas is offline
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45 acp wadcutter




Hi I am having a feeding problem with my 1911 with 200gr semiwadcutters .The problem is they are nose diving into the ramp.I think it could be the overall length is to short what length do you guys use? thanks CHRIS
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2008, 06:19 PM
Elderkin Elderkin is offline
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45 ACP Wadcutter

Chris, I have been reloading for 1911 45 ACP now for a couple of years which in the grand sceme of things is not too long but I have had feed issues as well when I used semi-wadcutter cast bullets. Actually when mine jamed into the ramp it was from having them too long. I now seat a 200 gr. SWC at 1.225 - 1.230. Using Oregon Trail or Trucast SWC lead this seats the shoulder right at about the edge of the case too just over the edge. This plus some other changes stopped my jaming issues. I also use a 7 shot magazine that has a split level front edge with a small dimple in the center of the ramp. I experienced more feed issues with SWC's when I tried to use a magazine with a flat ramp on the follower. I have been reloading for 4 different 1911's: a Taurus PT 1911, Colt Gold Cup Trophy and a Kimber Match Target II and most recently a Dan Wesson Pointman. I also did swtch to a lighter recoil spring. I am sure that someone may challenge my suggestions but the way I look at it....my gun goes bang when I pull the trigger. I hope this will give you some ideas to try. I pretty much did everything at the same time so I can't point to one thing as being the fix. Good luck. I just love shooting SWC's and being able to see those neat paper punch holes. Elderkin
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2008, 06:20 PM
steveno steveno is online now
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set the bullet seating depth so the sharp edge of the bullet is .020 to .040 above the case mouth. do not worry about overall length of the round
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2008, 06:58 PM
USMC 0802 USMC 0802 is offline
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+1 for what Elderwkin said.

I use 1.23" OAL and a .469 crimp. I shoot 200gr LSWC almost exclusively and this has worked perfectly in all my 1911s (after playing with the crimp a bit).
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:15 PM
SCW SCW is offline
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If the stars align, SWC will be fine. In the wrong mag, dirty ramps, etc you will get a few more misfeeds than with hardball. I've put 3500 rounds of swc through my DW CBOB in the past year with more than just a few hiccups. Never had an issue with hardball.

That said, load the shoulder out of the case about the thickness of your thumbnail. Nice pretty holes in paper and great accuracy.
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:36 PM
kevins_garage kevins_garage is offline
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The best way I have found to cure minor feeding problems is to load up a few dummy rounds with just a bullet and no powder or primer at different lengths and try cycling them through the gun. Once you find a length that hand cycles consistently, then I'd suggest loading up a handful and firing them to see if they function on their own.

I have a few guns that don't want to feed well unless I load 200 LSWC's somewhat short, as was mentioned already, with the shoulder of the bullet basically even with the case mouth - not a finger nail thickness or .020-.040" above.

I suppose it goes without saying, but re-check your load data before you just make any changes to your load, like reducing the COL. Pushing the bullet further into the case can increase pressure. Not as big a deal with a .45, but nonetheless worth mentioning in case you're already running a hot load.
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2008, 05:48 AM
WESHOOT2 WESHOOT2 is offline
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or

(Since we don't know what OAL you've tried) suggest trying OAL 1.250+/-.005".
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2008, 09:31 AM
Irishlad Irishlad is offline
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I use 1.25 with a crimp of .470 I believe.

That's with a "copy" of the H&G 68 by the way. 200 gr. SWC's are not all the same in design IME.

Bill Wilson has said the 200 LSWC may be a more reliable "feeder" than hardball.

Using 8 round mags...what kind?
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2008, 10:17 AM
tsp45acp tsp45acp is offline
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If you're using the shorter nose (original style, not H&G style) the oal is 1.160 +/-. But for the regular swc'rs 1.250is pretty much the standard. Each gun has it's own sweet spot oal. Trial & error experiments are the only way to find yours. Tracy
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2008, 10:18 AM
lonewolf5347 lonewolf5347 is offline
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Oal


my OAL is 1.232 max: in my sa 1911 with a 200 grain swc
a good rule to follow is a least 20 thousands of shoulder above the bullet case
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2008, 07:55 PM
Joe D Joe D is offline
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I load them the same as 230 ball 1.260".
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2008, 08:35 PM
Plinkster Plinkster is offline
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+1 on 1.250" (+/- 0.005") w/ 0.469" crimp

I've had very good results at that length w/ Lasercast SWC through my DW PMA and SA V-16 Longslide.

Jeff
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2008, 08:54 PM
tsp45acp tsp45acp is offline
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Never tried it, but I remember reading somewhere that once you get an oal that runs in your gun, don't reset the oal for diff style bullets. Don't know if it works, just remember reading it a long time ago. Tracy
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  #14  
Old 01-06-2008, 10:23 PM
SCW SCW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsp45acp View Post
Never tried it, but I remember reading somewhere that once you get an oal that runs in your gun, don't reset the oal for diff style bullets. Don't know if it works, just remember reading it a long time ago. Tracy
I don't think that makes a lot of sense, Tracy. The LPSWC (POINTED semi wad cutter) should have a lot more OAL than several other bullet types, especially hollow points. If I left the OAL that same the hollow point would barely be in the case.

Also, OAL on cast bullets is sort or an estimate because each manufacturers bullet profile might be slightly different, with nearly the same resulting weight.

I just make sure I have at least one version of the end product that I want to load remaining in my stores. I put this into the die and adjust the die off of the loaded round, then measure the first couple to make sure. This way it's really no big deal to change OAL and bullet types.

YMMV,
Shane
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2008, 11:42 PM
kris&bela kris&bela is offline
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O.A.L on my loads differs from my two 45's, Colt's - 1.260" and R.I.A -1.245" not much of a difference but from my two pistols the feedramp on them are not identical.They all work with a full 8 rounds capacity with no glitch and they are both throated barrels. None of those lenght worked right on my Novak magazines though but they are all flawless with Mccormicks and the generic G.I 7 rounder mags. These loads are all plated 200 grainer SWC though, hard cast should not be a problem co'z they tend to deform when they start to feed on the guns chamber atleast that was my experienced with non plated bullets.Good luck and have a great day....
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Novadesigns Novadesigns is offline
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It bears mentioning that there are different sized SWC bullets out there and some will run better that others. Not to mention that some simply can't be seated out past 1.200" without falling out of the case. I have some 185gr masterblaster moly SWC that I seat at 1.175" max and they feed flawlessly and shoot pretty well (still working on the right recipe).

Then there are the Rainer plated SWCs that are really tall and even at 1.230" they won't feed at all in my Kimber and only 50/50 in my XD-45.

It all depends on your bullet and your gun. My advice? make dummy rounds at different OALs until you find a setting that feeds reliably. Than make 10 or 15 low-charge rounds and test them, working your way up until you find that magic combo that works for you.

Trial and error, that's how it goes with reloading. Reloading manuals are a guide, mostly for safety's sake. But I've found that they are pretty much just a starting point.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2008, 06:18 PM
tsp45acp tsp45acp is offline
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SWC,

That's why I said I'd never tried it, just remember reading somewhere a long time ago. I didn't think much of it then or now, just throwing out suggestions for experiment since Chris was having probs. Gave other suggestions too. Tracy
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  #18  
Old 01-08-2008, 07:43 PM
Chris Haas Chris Haas is offline
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Thank You

Thank you for all the info .I got the flu and could not respond.The oal of the loads I am having trouble with are 1.193 and they are cast lyman with two lube groves.I have reloaded thousands of them and now I am having trouble I think the die must has become out of adjustment.Thanks Again CHRIS
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:30 AM
marlin.357 marlin.357 is offline
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This works for me. Set up your seater die for a 230 grain FMJ, use a factory round and turn down the seater until it touches. Don't change the setting and seat your SWC's. If this feeds with no problem take note of the OAL for future reference. If it doesn't work for you, then you have a lot of other suggestions!
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:26 PM
1911NM 1911NM is offline
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+ 1 on what Marlin said, also, just in my experience, I have been working up a load of my own with Berrys plated 200g SWC, over W231. I ran the first batch through my Kimber with an OAL of 1.254 taper crimped to .469. I experienced several failure to feed issues on the first round in a mag. I just finished loading a second batch at OAL of 1.244, and will try those this weekend. I had cooked up a few dummy rounds at 1.189 Those fed fine hand cycling, but with 5.5 gr of W231, I hadn't really wanted to go that short. Recoil is a little sharp with the longer OAL anyway. Good luck, be safe and have fun.
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  #21  
Old 01-09-2008, 05:00 PM
ColtLover ColtLover is offline
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200 LSWC
Win Brass
Win LP Primer
4.5 grains Vihtavuori N310
1.250" OAL
.469" Crimp.
850 fps
5" Gov't model

This round runs in nearly every 45 ACP handgun I can find, and working at a range full-time, I see a lot of them.
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  #22  
Old 02-08-2008, 11:49 AM
vstrom vstrom is offline
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The other thing I found on my Point man besides OAL and crimp width, was to polish the feeding ramp and the hood where the bullet comes in contact with the barrel from the clip, the hood seems to be more grabby with lead bullets, This helped my gun a lot!
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2008, 12:52 PM
ELI_the_ICE_man ELI_the_ICE_man is offline
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Lead needs more crimp

any crimp in the .471 - .468 range is for jacketed bullets only....
need more like .465 - .461 range for hard cast lead...
need less in soft lead.

Measuring factory jacketed rounds to get an idea for your cheap lead LSWC loads will not work.
They all will shoot, just the tighter crimp will be more accurate.

-ELI
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2008, 01:13 PM
ftw46 ftw46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveno View Post
set the bullet seating depth so the sharp edge of the bullet is .020 to .040 above the case mouth. do not worry about overall length of the round

This has worked for me also with at least four different SWC's. My SA eats them all without a hitch.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2008, 05:01 PM
LHB1 LHB1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELI_the_ICE_man View Post
any crimp in the .471 - .468 range is for jacketed bullets only.... need more like .465 - .461 range for hard cast lead... need less in soft lead.

Measuring factory jacketed rounds to get an idea for your cheap lead LSWC loads will not work. They all will shoot, just the tighter crimp will be more accurate. -ELI

No disrespect intended, Eli, but that information is not consistent with my experience. Have been reloading .45 ACP since 1964 with no problems using H&G #68 200 gr LSWC bullet:
1. Crimp on .45 ACP is ONLY to remove case flare.
2. Have NEVER crimped .45 ACP case to .461-.465. Crimping to .469-.471 works fine for most of us.
3. Sizing of case is what grips bullet and holds it in place.
4. I have trouble believing that accuracy is improved by deforming bullets with such extreme crimping.
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