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  #1  
Old 09-27-2007, 12:09 PM
Jack_Stroker Jack_Stroker is offline
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Springfield 1911's & Magazine Issues




I applogize for the long post, but here is my issue:

I've now owned three Springfield Armory 1911's. One Springfield Armory 1911A1 G.I. Champion, one Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded Champion in stainless steel and finally, the pride and joy, the Springfield TRP.

I have had magazine problems with all three of them. Even after hundreds of rounds little has changed with them. With all three of them I have problems with the slide locking back after inserting empty mag and racking the slide, or after the last round has been fired. It seems to do this with all kinds of ammunition. None of the magazines are giving me feeding issues, but most of them have the slide lock problem on all three weapons.

The Springfield G.I. Champion is gone, I traded that thing away. After trying more than 11 different mags I resigned to the fact that it only worked with Springfield factory mags and nothing else.

The Loaded Champion works with it's factory mags, and my TRP factory mags, but originally it only worked with two out of six Wilson Combat 47D's and it worked with both of my 10 round Wilson mags. After about 200 rounds or so it now works with four of the six Wilson 47D's. Interestingly enough I decided to try a pair of Kimber Tac Pro mags and see how I'd like them. This is my carry gun so I wanted the option of removing or not using the pad on the bottom of quite a few 1911 mags being sold out there. So I went ahead and tried them. Interestingly enough both work with the slide stop perfectly, but here is the kicker. If I load one in the chamber, then I can not seat a fully loaded mag with 8 rounds in it into the magwell without slamming down on it really hard. If I do that, it will fire and everything works ok, unless I wanted to drop a full mag. In which case the magazine release won't work until I push up on the mag, then remove it. Basically it only releases and functions properly when 7 rounds are in it, and one is in the chamber, or if there are none in the chamber and 8 rounds in the mag. With the Loaded Champion SS the Chip McCormick and USGI style mags also have slide lock issues. Sometimes they'll work without a hitch and other types they won't.

But wait theres more..................

My TRP is an interesting beast. I haven't yet fired it, but I've tried different mags checking for the slide lock problem I've had on my other two Springfield 1911's. Well the TRP is even worse than the Loaded Champion and nearly as bad as the G.I. Champion was. With G.I. mags, I'm all set. There doesn't seem to be any problems. With Chip McCormick 8 round mags I have no slide lock issue but I can not load 8 rounds in the mag and have 1 in the chamber. The mag will not seat. Now heres something else. With the Wilson Combat 47D's and 10 rounders, I can not insert the mags into the magwell past the 3 1/4 point unless I SLAM on the mag really hard. This has me concerned as I don't wish to damage anything in my new and semi-expensive 1911. If I press the mag release, I can get them all the way inserted without an issue. The Wilson 47D's will also allow me to have a full 8 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber for a total of 9. Great right? Unfortunately not. 3 out of the 6 will not lock the slide back at all. Two of those three will cause the slide to drop on the chamber when the mag is inserted or removed.

So at this point I'm pretty confused about what to do. So I grabbed my Kimber Tac Pro mags and gave them another shot. These slide in easier than the factory mags and they work almost 100%. I have no slide stop issues and no problems with the mag release. What I do have a problem with is loading 8 rounds in the mag, and having 1 in the chamber. Unlike the loaded Champion I am unable to slam it in at this point and get the mag inserted with one in the chamber. But with 7 rounds the Kimber Tac Pro mags work the best.

I've thought about contacting Springfield on this matter, but unfortunately I don't think it's necessarily a defective product type issue as I've had problems with three very different model Springfields. What I'm really searching for is the holy grail of mags. I want to find mags that I can use that carry 8 rounds and allow me to have 1 in the chamber and everything work properly. I've given some thought to purchasing the new Wilson Combat mags that just came out, but I haven't done it yet as they are somewhat expensive. (Not that the cost is a huge issue, but I'll want to try one before I buy a bunch of them.)

Thoughts, advice, experiences? Any help on this would be most appreciated.
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Springfield Armory TRP SS .45ACP, Springfield Armory Loaded Champion SS .45ACP, Springfield XD .45ACP Tactical, Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" .44 Magnum, S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum, S&W model 637 .38 Special, Beretta 92FS (M9), Beretta Cougar 8000, Desert Eagle .50AE, Colt LE 6920 AR15, Bushmaster XM-15 E21S (AR-15) Carbine, Romanian WASR-10 RPK 7.62x39mm, Marlin Model 60 .22LR, 2x Remington 870 Magnum Express 12GA, Stoeger Coachgun .12GA Double Barrel, Remington 700ADL 7mm Magnum.
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2007, 12:56 PM
Denis S Denis S is offline
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not trying to be an ass, but it seems that each of your Springfields has a slightly different problem, so trying to find a "holy grail" solution, as you put it, will leave you with the rest of them "holy grail" seekers - out to lunch.

my amateur advice would be to try to file a bit of material off the top edge of the Wilson mag catch slot to see if it helps to seat the mag with all 8 rounds in. Then of course you may run into feeding and slide-stop problems.

Maybe your best bet would be to talk to Springfield armory custom shop and ask them if they can work on your gun(s) to make it function smoothly with 47D since it is the gold-standard in 8-rounders and Springfield doesn't offer an 8-rounder, as far as I know.

FWIW, I have no problem seating and releasing a fully loaded 47D in my SA Mil-Spec.

Last edited by Denis S; 09-28-2007 at 11:56 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2007, 12:04 PM
2ndAmendISRight 2ndAmendISRight is offline
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Well to fix the 8-rnd issue, what needs to be addressed is that, His Holiness, John Moses Browning designed the 1911 to use 7-rnd mags.
Just like the mule in Serenity will only work with 5, the 1911 should only work with 7.
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  #4  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:06 PM
Jack_Stroker Jack_Stroker is offline
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Well actually with constant testing of mags, insertion and removal the weapon has loosened up quite a bit. Now there is only one out of the six Wilson Combat mags that isn't working properly. Upon inspection I noticed that the magazine retention slot is cut slightly differently on that magazine.

So the Wilson Combats are now working properly in both my 1911's. There are still one or two that don't lock back everytime in my Champion, but it seems to get better as I break it in.
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Springfield Armory TRP SS .45ACP, Springfield Armory Loaded Champion SS .45ACP, Springfield XD .45ACP Tactical, Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" .44 Magnum, S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum, S&W model 637 .38 Special, Beretta 92FS (M9), Beretta Cougar 8000, Desert Eagle .50AE, Colt LE 6920 AR15, Bushmaster XM-15 E21S (AR-15) Carbine, Romanian WASR-10 RPK 7.62x39mm, Marlin Model 60 .22LR, 2x Remington 870 Magnum Express 12GA, Stoeger Coachgun .12GA Double Barrel, Remington 700ADL 7mm Magnum.
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  #5  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:12 PM
Denis S Denis S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Stroker
Upon inspection I noticed that the magazine retention slot is cut slightly differently on that magazine.
Ha! so my hunch was on target.

Glad to hear they're breaking in. It would be a shame if you couldn't run an 8-rounder in your TRP.
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  #6  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Jack_Stroker Jack_Stroker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberDen
Ha! so my hunch was on target.

Glad to hear they're breaking in. It would be a shame if you couldn't run an 8-rounder in your TRP.
Well if that were truly the case, I'd send it back to Springfield. It's just an odd experience. I've had three Springfield 1911's that were all purchased very recently, and compared to my Kimber the break in has been very different. From day one my Kimber Custom II worked with any magazine and any ammunition I ever tried.

The Springfields seem to be tougher and better built, but they do seem to require a break in period. I'm not used to that. Most of my guns in general, not just 1911's were pretty much perfect from day one.
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Springfield Armory TRP SS .45ACP, Springfield Armory Loaded Champion SS .45ACP, Springfield XD .45ACP Tactical, Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" .44 Magnum, S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum, S&W model 637 .38 Special, Beretta 92FS (M9), Beretta Cougar 8000, Desert Eagle .50AE, Colt LE 6920 AR15, Bushmaster XM-15 E21S (AR-15) Carbine, Romanian WASR-10 RPK 7.62x39mm, Marlin Model 60 .22LR, 2x Remington 870 Magnum Express 12GA, Stoeger Coachgun .12GA Double Barrel, Remington 700ADL 7mm Magnum.
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  #7  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:27 PM
Denis S Denis S is offline
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I had a bit of an opposite experience. My new Kimber ran the worst with Kimber mags and the best with 47Ds. Then Kimber replaced my slide to one with internal extractor and it didn't matter what mag I stuck in that gun - everything worked equally well.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2007, 08:57 PM
mhabby mhabby is offline
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Jack- Just my 2 cents, but I has similar problems with a 1911 Springfield Loaded. As many others have said, forget 8 round mags. Replace the springs in the mags with a high quality spring (such as Wolf) meant for 7 rounds. The springs for 8 rounders are not as strong (thus the room for the extra round) and they do not put enough pressure on the follower which in turn engages slide stop when mag is empty. A bigger problem to watch out for (besides slide not locking back) is that with these weaker springs, the slide stop makes contact with the notch in the slide, but not enough to lock slide back. What this causes is a wearing of this notch, and ultimately a "rounding" of the notch at the bottom of the slide.

Try this. With one of your questionable mags, insert empty mag and lock slide to rear. If it does in fact lock back, look closely at the slide stop. Pull back on the slide ever so slightly while puting upward pressure on the slide stop at the same time. If the slide stop moves up further into the notch, you should replace the magazine spring. I replaced all my mags with Wolf Springs, and have never had a problem again.
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  #9  
Old 10-01-2007, 09:25 AM
Denis S Denis S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabby
I replaced all my mags with Wolf Springs, and have never had a problem again.
That's a good suggestion: actually a lot of people do this kind of a thing to Wilson 47D mags and retain the 8 round capacity.

Not to be a nit-pick, but the 8-round mags acommodate an extra round by using a modified follower, not as much by having shorter springs.
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Jack_Stroker Jack_Stroker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabby
Jack- Just my 2 cents, but I has similar problems with a 1911 Springfield Loaded. As many others have said, forget 8 round mags. Replace the springs in the mags with a high quality spring (such as Wolf) meant for 7 rounds. The springs for 8 rounders are not as strong (thus the room for the extra round) and they do not put enough pressure on the follower which in turn engages slide stop when mag is empty. A bigger problem to watch out for (besides slide not locking back) is that with these weaker springs, the slide stop makes contact with the notch in the slide, but not enough to lock slide back. What this causes is a wearing of this notch, and ultimately a "rounding" of the notch at the bottom of the slide.

Try this. With one of your questionable mags, insert empty mag and lock slide to rear. If it does in fact lock back, look closely at the slide stop. Pull back on the slide ever so slightly while puting upward pressure on the slide stop at the same time. If the slide stop moves up further into the notch, you should replace the magazine spring. I replaced all my mags with Wolf Springs, and have never had a problem again.
I'll check into the Spring issue as you suggest. It may very well be a spring issue on those two 47D's. I am also fairly certain that the problem with my Kimber Tac Pro mags is also spring related.

However, the notch on those two 47D's do in fact have notches cut slightly differently than the others do. The cut is the same height, but it is wider extending further tword the middle front of the mag. It may be that those two Wilsons are the ones I had for a couple of years. I haven't checked this not thinking it was an issue, but the older Wilson's I own have weaker springs than the newer ones do. So there may certainly be something to what you've suggested. Though the poster above me is correct, the spring may be different but the main difference between 8 and 7 round mags is the design of the follower. The Wilson mags have a concaved follower that allows the rounds to sit lower in the mag than they otherwise would. Couple that with a slightly different spring and there is enough extra room for another round.

My Kimber Tac Pro mags had a problem with seating fully loaded into my Springfield Loaded Champion. After a couple of weeks of remaining loaded this problem has dissappeared, however they still won't work fully loaded in my TRP. It may be a combination of needing to break in the TRP as well as some of my mags.
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Springfield Armory TRP SS .45ACP, Springfield Armory Loaded Champion SS .45ACP, Springfield XD .45ACP Tactical, Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" .44 Magnum, S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum, S&W model 637 .38 Special, Beretta 92FS (M9), Beretta Cougar 8000, Desert Eagle .50AE, Colt LE 6920 AR15, Bushmaster XM-15 E21S (AR-15) Carbine, Romanian WASR-10 RPK 7.62x39mm, Marlin Model 60 .22LR, 2x Remington 870 Magnum Express 12GA, Stoeger Coachgun .12GA Double Barrel, Remington 700ADL 7mm Magnum.
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  #11  
Old 10-02-2007, 11:14 AM
Silverscooby27 Silverscooby27 is offline
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I've got 7 47Ds, and my Springfield Loaded has had zero problems with any of them.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2007, 11:18 AM
Jack_Stroker Jack_Stroker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabby
Try this. With one of your questionable mags, insert empty mag and lock slide to rear. If it does in fact lock back, look closely at the slide stop. Pull back on the slide ever so slightly while puting upward pressure on the slide stop at the same time. If the slide stop moves up further into the notch, you should replace the magazine spring. I replaced all my mags with Wolf Springs, and have never had a problem again.
Well you were spot on with the problem. The two mags that I have problems with are in fact the older Wilson Combat mags that I've had for years and their springs are in fact weak. The newer mags have much stronger springs and they work fine. The ones with the weaker springs are not pushing the slide stop all the way into the notch in the slide.

So I'm going to get new springs for them and I should be good to go.
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Springfield Armory TRP SS .45ACP, Springfield Armory Loaded Champion SS .45ACP, Springfield XD .45ACP Tactical, Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" .44 Magnum, S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum, S&W model 637 .38 Special, Beretta 92FS (M9), Beretta Cougar 8000, Desert Eagle .50AE, Colt LE 6920 AR15, Bushmaster XM-15 E21S (AR-15) Carbine, Romanian WASR-10 RPK 7.62x39mm, Marlin Model 60 .22LR, 2x Remington 870 Magnum Express 12GA, Stoeger Coachgun .12GA Double Barrel, Remington 700ADL 7mm Magnum.
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2007, 07:53 PM
mhabby mhabby is offline
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Jack- I had the same exact experience. Glad your problem is solved as well. For what its worth, I buy my new magazines only from Wolf. They have yet to let me down. When I aquire a used mag, the first thing I do is the test I described above, and if the slide stop does not go all the way up, I replace the spring with a Wolf.
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