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  #1  
Old 08-09-2007, 01:31 AM
retzkek retzkek is offline
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International Clays?




Anybody know why there's no reloading data (that I can find, at least) for International Clays in pistol calibers (specifically, .45 ACP)?

It's burn rate puts it between Clays and Universal, both of which have data. So what's so odd about International?
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Old 08-09-2007, 02:10 AM
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stillwater stillwater is offline
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I'll take a shot at it

There is not loading data for it, intentionally. For straight clays load data from hodgdon:
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
I do not know of load data for pistol for International as it is not provided by Hodgdon. I believe because International is formulated specifically for shotgun loads, there may be some problems with pistol loads. I do not know what performance parameter differences may exist between Int'l and straight Clays but because of the existence of the two different propellants I must assume Clays would be superior for pistol loads and there is no data for Int'l intentionally. I would not recommend experimentation with Int'l as your results will likely conclude Clays to be superior. I do like Clays though. (My favorite for comfortable shooting of the 45 ACP...very smooth and very consistent). I apologize if I did not help you here.
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Old 08-09-2007, 04:36 AM
Aussiezed Aussiezed is offline
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International Clays is Australian (ADI) AS-50 / AP-50 powder.
It is a clean burning propellant that is a tad faster than Winchester WST - but builds pressure VERY quickly. Especially when heavy bullets or reduced case volumes are used.

If you look at the http://www.adi.com.au website under AS-50 or AP-50 you can get an idea of what is recommended.

I burned up about 40lbs of it in .45ACP...... before they banned them and took all the legal ones.

It works great with 200gn H&G #68 SWC's.

Oh... in case you are wondering about the other powders. CLAYS is AS-30.... Universal Clays is AP-70.

ADI supply the extruded powder to Hodgdon where it is repackaged
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:11 AM
retzkek retzkek is offline
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Interesting. Thanks for the info!

I picked up a pound of it by mistake (was looking for Clays, and the shop only had Universal and International. Since I had never heard or seen any mention of International anywhere - online or in a reloading manual - I figured that it must be what people refer to as plain Clays. Good thing I like to play it safe and did a bit more research first!).

ADI's website gives data for AP50N in .45 ACP, but not AS50N. It has this to say about AP50N:
Quote:
Its burning rate, bulk density and clean burning properties are similar to those of AS50N shotgun powder but it has superior metering characteristics for small charge weights.
Is it appropriate to read this as saying that the same load data can be used for both, but there could be higher variance in the charge weights thrown with AS50N (using a volumetric powder measure, that is)?

I see what you're saying about pressure. Here's the data for AP50N pushing a 200 gn cast bullet per the ADI website:

Startings load: 4.0 gn; 755 fps; 11050 psi
Max load: 5.0 gn; 960 fps; 21000 psi

That's a 90% increase in pressure over a 25% increase in powder! Don't think you'd want to push this stuff to the edge.

In any case, I think I'm going to tuck this stuff away for now, and go find a shop that has straight Clays in stock (or maybe I'll stick with W231 - good results so far). I'm too new to reloading to go messing around with something outside the scope of the reloading manuals.

Thanks again.

Addendum:

Out of curiosity, I loaded some International in my Lee Auto Disk, and threw 10 charges using the 0.53 cc measure. Got the following results:

1x 3.9 gn
6x 4.0 gn
3x 4.1 gn
Combined: 40.4 gn

Would this be considered poor consistency? I highly doubt I would be able to notice that kind of variance when shooting.

Last edited by retzkek; 08-10-2007 at 12:49 AM.
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2007, 07:55 AM
Aussiezed Aussiezed is offline
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In the early 90's I used to be sponsored by ADI..... they supplied me with large volumes of powder and I developed a raft of reloading data that was later pressure tested by the ballistics lab.

One of the big problems back then was the flake (particulate) size of the AS-50 powder... it was small enough to meter accurately in some throwers and too big for others. The AP-50 has flakes that are much smaller in size, so it meters better. The burning rates are very close for both powders.

The slight variations that you have experienced are pretty normal for rotor type throwers. Bushing throwers (and Dillons) seem to be a bit more consistent over say 10 throws.
I never could tell the difference when shooting a .45 though.... and accuracy was always good.

4.2 grains with the 200gn SWC, loaded to 1.255" OAL is a sweet load in the .45.... and is heaps cleaner than 231... no grit or residue.

We Aussies' can make good gunpowder..... but out politicians make poor gun laws.
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  #6  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:57 PM
dukeofdata dukeofdata is offline
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Hodgdon's International Clays

I've used International Clays for my trap loads for years and asked Hodgdon (via email) why they didn't publish data for pistols. Their reply:

"International Clays does not work well for most pistol applications. Basically, data is limited to a few large capacity cartridges such as 45 Colt.

Mike Daly
Director of Customer Service"

This was back in 2002, so it may be time to ask again.
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