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  #1  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:12 AM
Grizz Axxemann Grizz Axxemann is offline
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WSF in a .38 Special (not +P)




I've found +P load data for WSF, but I'm a little nervous about feeding my recently acquired S&W Model 10 +P ammo. It's wearing a pencil-weight 4 3/8" barrel (to keep it in conformance to Canada's retarded firearms laws) and the previous owner advised very much against +P loads through this gun. Our duty guns at work (I work for one of the bigger armored car companies) are a mix of 4" Model 10 and Model 64s with the heavy barrels. We feed those guns a fairly steady diet of +P ammo, seeing as someone is always qualifying at some point in time, and we qualify with "stale dated" duty ammo, which is the Speer Gold Dot 125gr JHP +P load. So far none of the duty guns I've seen has been too worse for wear, other than the finish (they ride in holsters all day, the pool guns are used round the clock) and all seem to function fine, at least, the one I normally carry is in good shape.

So what I'm wondering is this: Is it doable to make a reduced charge load for the .38 Special with WSF? I'm thinking a 10% reduction off the starting load should do the trick. I know I can just go buy another powder, but I'd prefer using this stuff up first, and I can only load so much 10mm at a time (which is what I originally bought this powder for. I can't keep too much powder in my apartment, lest my landlord get more suspicious than he already is.)
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:25 PM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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Howdy, neighbor

I'm lost. What does WSF stand for ?


Joe
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2007, 02:44 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dcoe
I'm lost. What does WSF stand for ?


Joe
Pretty sure it's "Winchester Super Field", a shotgun/handgun powder.
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2007, 06:35 PM
Ol` Joe Ol` Joe is offline
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The Speer #13 lists their 125gr Gold Dot with 5.3 gr of WSF, CCI-500 @1
.470" OAL as a std 38 spcl load. There is a notation not to reduce the charge so I would stay with the recommended load.
The +P data shows this same load as a starting point. The actual +P pressures don`t come in until you have brought the charge up close to or at max.
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2007, 07:13 PM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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It's a powder

I should have figured that out. Thx.


Joe
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  #6  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:16 AM
Grizz Axxemann Grizz Axxemann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol` Joe
The Speer #13 lists their 125gr Gold Dot with 5.3 gr of WSF, CCI-500 @1
.470" OAL as a std 38 spcl load. There is a notation not to reduce the charge so I would stay with the recommended load.
The +P data shows this same load as a starting point. The actual +P pressures don`t come in until you have brought the charge up close to or at max.
That's the max charge of WSF in the standard .38SPL?

I don't have any speer manuals on hand, and I wasn't even planning on running Gold Dots through my revolver. Just cast and FMJ (whatever is more readily available) for target practice, and service pistol matches. One of these days, I'll end up rebarreling my Model 10 into a Heavy configuration, but for the time being, she's gonna get run as it is.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:41 AM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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yes, that's the max

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz Axxemann
That's the max charge of WSF in the standard .38SPL?

I don't have any speer manuals on hand, and I wasn't even planning on running Gold Dots through my revolver. Just cast and FMJ (whatever is more readily available) for target practice, and service pistol matches. One of these days, I'll end up rebarreling my Model 10 into a Heavy configuration, but for the time being, she's gonna get run as it is.
Speer #13 lists that as max with 125 gr bullet, and DNR, as O'l Joe (no
relation) says. They also list same 5.3 gr max DNR for 110 gr bullet,
giving 978 fps.


Joe
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2007, 12:30 PM
Grizz Axxemann Grizz Axxemann is offline
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I see. That's the info I was after. I'm guessing reducing the load may cause squibs or worse?
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2007, 01:41 PM
40dcoe 40dcoe is offline
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Worse ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz Axxemann
I see. That's the info I was after. I'm guessing reducing the load may cause squibs or worse?
Hmmm. What would be worse ?

Text in Manual says "reductions . . . can result in a bullet-in-bore condition
in revolvers with excessive barrel/cylinder gaps." So, yes, they are
concerned about squibs from reduced loads.


Joe
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2007, 02:24 PM
NordicRX8 NordicRX8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz Axxemann
I've found +P load data for WSF, but I'm a little nervous about feeding my recently acquired S&W Model 10 +P ammo. It's wearing a pencil-weight 4 3/8" barrel (to keep it in conformance to Canada's retarded firearms laws) and the previous owner advised very much against +P loads through this gun.
I'm curious... is this a modified gun (very little revolver experience)? Or did it come directly from S&W this way (light barrel)?? And how old is it?

From all the revolvers I've handled (not many), the type of ammo is roll marked right into the firearm. If the weapon has +P rating on the gun itself, its safe to shoot it with +P ammo all day!

Best bet is to check with S&W. If you get the time, let us know.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Grizz Axxemann Grizz Axxemann is offline
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Well, this is the original barrel profile, but it's somewhat longer than factory spec. Up here, handguns with barrels 105mm in length and shorter are illegal. It started out life as a 102mm barrel. was rebarreled to 150 mm to keep it legal, then shortened to 110 mm just before I bought it. I'm planning on putting a 110 mm heavy barrel on it one of these days (can't afford to right now) to keep it legal and more like my duty gun at work. This one, along with my duty gun are both roll-marked .38 S&W Special CTG. We run +P and lots of it through the work guns with no ill effect. Some of our guns are over 50 years old, and alot of them were picked up on a SWEET deal with the Edmonton Police Service when they went from the Model 10 to the Glock 22 in the late 80s to early 90s. In fact, I recently found out the Model 10 I carry was a police issue sidearm, and they were running +P through them before we picked them up.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:25 PM
Ol` Joe Ol` Joe is offline
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I would check and not take me as knowing what I`m talking about, but I believe the frame is the deciding factor on whether or not a pistol will handle +P ammo, not the barrel diameter. The peak pressures are found in the cylinder not the barrel. The gas excaping the BBL/cylinder gap, and the added volume of the throat and bore will reduce pressure further.
I would do as someone else suggested and contact the maker and ask what they recommend.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:53 PM
leecreekkid leecreekkid is offline
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[QUOTE=40dcoe]Hmmm. What would be worse ?

Text in Manual says "reductions . . . can result in a bullet-in-bore condition
in revolvers with excessive barrel/cylinder gaps."

One of my manuals , can't remember which one, says not to use 158 gr. bullets for this reason in 38 Spl.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:48 PM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leecreekkid
One of my manuals , can't remember which one, says not to use 158 gr. bullets for this reason in 38 Spl.
I sure wish you could find that manual. 158gr bullets are to 38 special what 230gr bullets are to 45acp. The "standard" bullet.
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2007, 12:39 AM
leecreekkid leecreekkid is offline
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Found it

I searched and found it. It is page 509 of the Speer Reloading Manual #12. It is about 2/3 of the way down on the right side. However, this only pertains to jacketed bullets. My memroy was a little off. For those who do not have the book, here is a picture.
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Last edited by leecreekkid; 07-23-2007 at 01:07 AM.
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  #16  
Old 07-21-2007, 08:47 AM
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RetiredRod RetiredRod is offline
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Thanks for going to the trouble to find & post that page from the Speer manual. When I think of 158gr .38spl bullets I usually think "lead". It seems Speer thinks jacketed/plated 158's may be a potential problem.
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