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  #1  
Old 05-17-2007, 10:07 AM
mitrod3 mitrod3 is offline
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Real World Question on the RELIABILITY Issue?




This was simply prompted by another threat running relating to what gun (you name it) is more reliable than what other gun (you name it) out here and why?

Now, in regards to whatever you shoot and whatever gun you trust:

1.) Does anyone know a single teacher of the gun arts or any SD/HD class instructor who does not teach "malfunction clearing" as part of their class no matter what gun they happen to personally endorse and trust?

2.) Does anyone know a single teacher who says not to worry about a malfunction on "that" gun because it always works?

3.) Do any of you trust your SD/HD/Carry weapon enough to never practice malfunction clearing because......"well it's a (whatever) and they are 100% reliable and they simply don't and won't ever malfunction".

To date I have not taken a single class where malfunction clearing was not a very serious part of the instruction even on the guns that are supposed to be 100% everyday and all day long in relation to what some of us say out here. I have also taken classes where the some of the most well known "reliables" went south .......which is why the instructors hit the malfunction clearing aspect so intensely.

I know that many of us have had guns that simply ran and ran and/or run and run......but I was just wondering about this and what others had run into both "class wise and practice wise" despite the claims we all make about how "reliable" we say we believe our guns to be.

Personally, my wife just loves it (NOT) when she comes home to find my snap caps and dummy rounds (and mags) splattered all over the living room floor. Also, got to love clearing those double feeds during live fire at the range.

Be safe, shoot well.

Last edited by mitrod3; 05-17-2007 at 11:02 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2007, 10:24 AM
Denis S Denis S is offline
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Your point is well taken. People freak out too much about jams. If your gun jams, don't just stand there, there are very simple tecniques to follow once you ID what kind of a jam you got. Besides, by definition a jam cannot occur unless the gun has already fired, which means that the most important shot of the altercation has already been taken.

Now if your barrel lugs get shot off (as has happened on occasion to that gun that will remain unnamed), that's a bummer.
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2007, 12:31 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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All firearms can jam. That point was reinforced to me years ago at a training class. One student had a Star FireStar that kept choking on him. He was perplexed because he said it never did that before. I also saw a Glock FTF because the student was holding it like a raw egg. My Colt Series 80 sailed on through the entire 1500-round course without stopping (I never stopped to clean it either), and it actually amazed a couple of the other students who expected me to be the one having trouble. Only one other student had a 1911 (a brand-new Springfield Mil-Spec), and his malfed a few times as well. After he let me look at it I concluded it was too new and tight, and I had him rip a few fast mags downrange during a break from class. As far as I can remember he didn't have any more problems after that. However, it just goes to show any weapon can fail, especially if it hasn't been tested.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:03 PM
Fingolfin Fingolfin is offline
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All that is why I advocate a revolver for carry and self defense. Any gun can fail but some designs are inherently more reliable and more operator forgiving. Everyone has to balance the features they want though and no handgun is perfect for every role.

The idea of practicing malfunction drills on a gun that is 100% reliable is dead on though. Also practicing things like one handed draws and firing to make sure your gun will cycle with a less than perfect grip.
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:19 PM
Webbo Webbo is offline
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All guns can malfunction.... ALL guns. Case in point, I was at a local uspsa match yesterday and there was a glock shooter, a revolver shooter, and two single stack guys in my squad. Both the glock and revolver had problems; ftfs with the glock and light primer strikes and a stuck cylinder on the revo. (the 1911's ran flawlessly (with the exception of yours truly not seating a mag because I was trying to go too fast))

Thats not to say that 1911's are perfect by any means. I'm just pointing out that the 'old reliable' glocks and revolvers performed terribly.

Practice malfunction drills no matter kind of "perfect" gun you shoot.
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:32 PM
6285108 6285108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo
Practice malfunction drills no matter kind of "perfect" gun you shoot.
Exactly and your gun will be more apt to malf if you shoot it in odd positions, in your off hand, in retention positions. If I take a gun to a class and it has a malf at 500-700 rounds plus it could be b/c it is getting dirty, Needs lube, I am fatigued (bad grip), or b/c of a mag issue. I'd say revolvers are more reliable but when they do go down they go down hard are the malfs are not simple to fix.

Shooting a gun at the range with a pefect grip everytime and shooting a gun in a good training class is apples and oranges
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Last edited by 6285108; 05-17-2007 at 01:34 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:38 PM
JiminCA JiminCA is offline
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Sometimes you encounter a malf for non gun reasons. A fat round, or shooting through an opening and the slide catches on the opening, mag goes south at the wrong time, etc.

Once you have a reliable gun, there are still a lot of reasons it could malf. Better know how to clear it.
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:40 PM
abaldeagle abaldeagle is offline
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Murphy's law applies to weapons just as much as it does to computers.

Your 1911 or whatever may function flawlessly for years. Its going to jam/ftf/fte/whatever when you need it the most.

Practice practice practice carry a BUG.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2007, 01:46 PM
gmcal gmcal is offline
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I was reading a magazine article written by Clint Smith a couple of years ago. One of the points he made is those that have guns that "never fail" especially need to practice malfunction drills. His reason was if it hasn't failed doesn't mean it won't.

We must keep in mind that the gun is but 1 part of the weapon. There is also magazines (if using an auto loader), ammo, and of course the shooter. Too many things to go wrong to expect your gun to work 100% of the time.
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2007, 03:16 PM
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dsk dsk is offline
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Some of you might remember this thread:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160760

My previously-reliable Kahr P9 decided to barf on me right at the range, which was disconcerting because I had left it in this exact condition as my defense piece. It could just as easily have been during the real thing, not practice. The truth is you never know when it will happen, so don't assume your favorite wondergun that hasn't jammed in over 20,000 rounds isn't going to decide to do it one day.
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Try not to fall into the common trap of wanting to replace everything on your new 1911 just to make it "better". Know what you're changing out, and why. You may spend a lot of money fixing things that weren't broken to begin with. Shoot it for at least 500 rounds, then decide what you don't like and want improved. Vintage 1911's should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Kimber4Ever Kimber4Ever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbo
Practice malfunction drills no matter kind of "perfect" gun you shoot.
+1. Aww, what the hell.... +2.
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