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  #1  
Old 12-09-2006, 07:28 AM
canuck63 canuck63 is offline
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Strange sign inside SVI barrel...any clue?




Hi all,
yesterday I've been to a gunshop near Milan where a fresh batch of SVI guns had just arrived.
I was thoruoghly checking out a .45ACP 6" bull barrel Scepter before buying it, when I found something inside the barrel (an AET-Coated Schuemann) that made me say "no" to that beauty;about 2" down the bore(looking from the muzzle)there was a circular "groove",neither very long nor too deep but visible enough to be seen with bare eyes without too strong a light,it was "etched" there in a very peculiar way,as if a bullet had stuck there.The gun was new of course,but it's worth pointing out that at Brescia's Banco di Prova (the place where they fire-proof all firearms before they could be sold in Italy) there are workers that would treat a ultra rare, prototype cal. 45 Luger as if it was a piece of scrap metal !
As soon as I asked him to take a look inside the barrel the dealer (a well known shooter)scrubbed the bore with a steel brush ,then he started harping on about the fact that that groove wasn't that important,that it wouldn't have hurt the gun's precision and all that jazz ,but I'm quite confident that he wouldn't have liked that gun in HIS own collection the least,and looked quite upset when I politely said that I wasn't interested in that gun anymore and That I'd have rather have waited for the second batch to make it to Italy .
SVIs are wonderfully made guns and In my HUMBLE opinion that sign inside the barrel is a damage suffered by the latter during the tests in Italy;I understand that Mr. Sandy Strayer wouldn't like to have such a gun back and that the dealer would have been hard-pressed trying to talk a savvy would-be buyer into buying that gun, but that ain't a reason to try to stick it to a customer who came a long way to buy it(on a phone call I may add!),saying that such damage is not important and making allegation that if I was so concerned about that "little sign" than I wasn't a "real shooter" .
The sign is on the lands and on the grooves and is not as "clean" as if it had been made by a tool,and if that was the (remote)case,then again I'm 455% sure that it wouldn't have passed the scrutiny at SVI before being shipped!
What do you guys think about that sign inside the barrel?We're here to learn new things every day,about both firearms and people;I didn't like that mark (and I'm sure that the dealer didn't olike that too!) and the dealer's reaction made me think twice about buying from him in the future!
Thank you for stopping and reading
Cheers
Manu
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Les Baer Premiere II Super Tac-SA Leatham Legend-KIMBER/ADC Super Match II-COLT/ADC GC-SVI INFINITY Competition-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom CQB-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom Master Elite 1911-Les Baer Concept v

Last edited by canuck63; 12-09-2006 at 07:30 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2006, 01:51 PM
Triggerbender Triggerbender is offline
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Learned a long time ago to go with your first gut feeling on things like that.
Always cost you time and money to fix in the long run or if you don't do anything with it you always have it nagging at you in the back of your mind.
Then if you decide to sell it could turn into another whole different PIA.
You are right to pass on it IMMHO.
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2006, 04:54 PM
greco greco is offline
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You are correct in passing. Why a damaged gun. Shame on him for trying to chastise you for not buying his junk. Instead of you sending it back for correction, let him do it.
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2006, 05:09 PM
canuck63 canuck63 is offline
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Triggerbender and Greco,
thank you very much for your replies guys!What's your opinion on that mark?I know...you have not seen it and you may not have a definite answer but...could it be the sign left by a stuck bullet ?Just curious
Cheers
Manu
__________________
Italy LOVES the USA and the USA LOVE Italy!
Les Baer Premiere II Super Tac-SA Leatham Legend-KIMBER/ADC Super Match II-COLT/ADC GC-SVI INFINITY Competition-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom CQB-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom Master Elite 1911-Les Baer Concept v

Last edited by canuck63; 12-09-2006 at 05:11 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2006, 03:37 AM
canuck63 canuck63 is offline
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I've had a few days to go cold on that and decided to pass on SVIs imported to Italy at least until the Importer will be the same,and that's a pity for IMHO they're beautifully crafted guns!
I've even written an email to Mr Strayer,but after much reading about SVI's customer service (or lack thereof!) I doubt I'll get a reply !
Whatever...I've turned my attention towards two other 1911s which I'll post here as soon as I'll get them!
Cheers
Manu
__________________
Italy LOVES the USA and the USA LOVE Italy!
Les Baer Premiere II Super Tac-SA Leatham Legend-KIMBER/ADC Super Match II-COLT/ADC GC-SVI INFINITY Competition-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom CQB-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom Master Elite 1911-Les Baer Concept v
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:22 AM
PSchwenke PSchwenke is offline
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Most likely it was a bullet stuck in the barrel and shot out by the next bullet. I've seen this many times during matches. Most of the time this happens when your shooting a match, the gun fires but not full charge, the slide gets racked and the next round goes off as usual. Most of the time people do not even know what happened.

Other times there is a lound bang and the clip is shot out the bottom of the frame and the grips get cracked.

Paul
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:04 AM
canuck63 canuck63 is offline
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Hi Paul,
thanks a lot for your reply mate


Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck63
I've even written an email to Mr Strayer,but after much reading about SVI's customer service (or lack thereof!) I doubt I'll get a reply
I've written the email a few hours ago to which Mr. Strayer himself gave a prompt reply,and that goes to show that SVI customer service is not that bad after all !

Here's the text of my email:
<<<<<<Dear Mr. Strayer,
Last Friday I went to the Italian SVI importer’s gunshop,namely Mr*****,where a new batch of SVI guns had just arrived.
Amongst the other guns,and at this point I’d like to point out that I already am the lucky and happy owner of two of your beautiful firearms and one of them,a 40S&W Infinity Competition has been bought there,there was a gorgeous 45 cal. Scepter fitted with a 6” AET-coated bull barrel which I was about to purchase when,upon close inspection (I always do thoroughly check ANY weapon before buying it !),I noticed this strange mark inside the barrel,about 2” down the bore and approximately where the barrel’s cone start.
It ‘s a circular groove which affects the lands and the grooves and which,albeit not tremendously wide or deep,is visible enough to be seen with naked eyes and a dim light.It’s sort of like a “crown” left by something that could have well been a stuck bullet,very likely fired at Brescia’s (in)famous Banco di Prova,since if it was a sign left by a tool it sure wouldn’t have passed scrutiny at Schuemann or SVI before being shipped!
Truth be told, Mr***** hasn’t been enthused by this “finding”the least,or,rather,by my reaction after I had noticed that issue and consequently decided to back off from the purchase.When I kindly asked him to take a look at that sign at first he started to vigorously scrub the bore from both ends with a steel brush (!) with no success whatsoever,then he proceeded to harp on about that that groove wasn’t that important,that it wouldn’t have hurt the gun’s accuracy and so on and so forth,wrapping up the whole story with a zinger to which I turned a deaf ear,i.e. if I was too concerned about that sign then I wasn’t a real shooter...that figures!Let’s consider that being the shooter he is he wouldn’t have taken a barrel that wasn’t less than perfect for his very guns.
I’ve always been a great fan of SVI guns and I’m but another proud owner, but this time I think that I’ll pass on them,and that’s a real pity because I’ve been eagerly waiting on other jewels to be added to my 1911 collection for the past eight months.
How can I possibly depend on a dealer that doesn’t realize that such behavior could mean more than an unsold gun...most likely many unsold guns?My next step would have been ordering a .45 “Dave Uchida’s replica”1911 but, even if we agreed that he’d have given me a phone call as soon as the second shipping would have made it to Italy(I’d have loved a 45cal SS 5” AET-coated bull barrel 1911 if available),I’ve had a few days to go cold on that and to think twice before buying from him in the future,since instead of simply nodding and telling me to wait for the other guns to arrive he behaved otherwise,trying to make me look like a fastidious nitpicker,which thing I am in a way,since I’ve been shooting and collecting fine weapons for the past 25 years..a fastidious nitpicker more than willing and happy to pay for what he gets, I may add!
If you know of other Italian gunshops that import SVI guns please let me know,hoping in a more professional behavior this time,especially so when when there’s something obviously and seriously going wrong with an expensive thing a customer is concretely interested in.
For the time being I opted for a Les Baer Monolith HW and an ADC 6” bullseye gun which I’m going to get this Friday coming, but I hope I’ll add more gems coming from the Lone Star State real soon.
Thank you very much for your time and your patience coping with this little rant of mine which I’ll bring to an end remaining>>>>>>

And here's the reply:
Mr. ******,

I received you email and appreciate the detail that you provided.
****** and myself appreciate your business.

It is unfortunate that you are not the proud owner of yet another SV.
The shadow that you noticed was not an imperfection or damage
caused by the proof house. The barrel is capable of the extreme accuracy
witnessed by the test target included with the pistol. The coating of the
barrel is a multi layer, very high temperature gaseous process. The gases
flow into the bore from both ends of the barrel. The reflection that
you witnessed occurs where the gases meet and is angstroms in
thickness. Without going into more technical details be assured that
the pistol will only shoot better with use. ****** was correct in
polishing the barrel with a very fine diamond compound. I have
personally seen over 100,000 rounds through a coated AET barrel
with no wear to even the first layer of the coating. It is our goal
to produce pistols that get better over time, much like a fine
wine or an astute gentleman such as yourself.


Warmest Regards,

Sandy Strayer
__________________
Italy LOVES the USA and the USA LOVE Italy!
Les Baer Premiere II Super Tac-SA Leatham Legend-KIMBER/ADC Super Match II-COLT/ADC GC-SVI INFINITY Competition-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom CQB-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom Master Elite 1911-Les Baer Concept v

Last edited by canuck63; 12-12-2006 at 07:08 AM.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:58 AM
Sleepsafe Sleepsafe is offline
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????

"The gases flow into the bore from both ends of the barrel." One end gasses from the burning propellant, the other end room air ??

Last edited by Sleepsafe; 12-12-2006 at 08:06 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2006, 08:25 AM
canuck63 canuck63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepsafe
"The gases flow into the bore from both ends of the barrel." One end gasses from the burning propellant, the other end room air ??

Hi Sleepsafe,
at first I was puzzled too but re-reading Mr Strayer's reply more carefully it's obvious he referred to the AEF coating process;
"The coating of the
barrel is a multi layer, very high temperature gaseous process. The gases
flow into the bore from both ends of the barrel. The reflection that
you witnessed occurs where the gases meet"

At any rate....a visible "borderline" inside the bore and no sign whatsoever on the outer surface ?In fact the outer barrel is as smooth as glass(even smoother !)....and I'm strongly convinced that the Italian importer has tried to turn the cards once contacted by SVI's big guns,proof to that that I did not mention "very fine diamond compund" used by the former and that "astute" could mean that yours truly has been the one who has tried to turn the whole story to his advantage !
Whatever....gases should flow into each other without leaving any signs imo,rather than colliding like two cars in a head-on crash ....as long as a Thermo-nuke device is not used for the process!
Cheers
Manu
__________________
Italy LOVES the USA and the USA LOVE Italy!
Les Baer Premiere II Super Tac-SA Leatham Legend-KIMBER/ADC Super Match II-COLT/ADC GC-SVI INFINITY Competition-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom CQB-ADC-Armi Dallera Custom Master Elite 1911-Les Baer Concept v

Last edited by canuck63; 12-12-2006 at 08:31 AM.
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