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  #1  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:08 PM
Frank1 Frank1 is offline
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Barrel Timing Test




After hours of pouring over Jerry's books (with include the http://www.schuemann.com barrel timing test), which incorporates the and quotes the timing test verbatim, after tickering, discovering and exploring and adjusting my 1911's, I have come to the following conclusions:

1. The timing tests make sense.
2. The timing tests are irrelevant to the majority of 1911 makers and owners as the pistols are never shot enough to induce the failure(s) as described in the tests.
3. After witnessing a failure described in the tests (at a pistol match-the lugs sheared off-installed by a working Gunsmith). These timing tests are important to those who shoot their pistols 10K plus per year.

Betcha that any Kimber, Springfield etc, will not pass the tests. But then from their perspective who cares? None of my guns passed all of tests without some adjustment. One didn't pass any initially. But again from the makers/smith's point of view-who cares-statistics show they will not be shot enough to induce the failures described.

I have one 1911 with 80K plus rounds on a barrel I installed (now I realize I got it right by sheer luck).

Question: Gunsmiths. Really understanding the timing of the pistol is pretty complex stuff (at least for me). My head hurt trying to grasp all of the concepts and performing the tests on multiple 1911's. If I am going to have a barrel installed, how does one find out, or discover, that the gunsmith has a clue as to how to properly install a new barrel and properly time the barrel?

So far the responses I have receive are:

1. Huh?
2. I know how to fit a barrel (don't ask me anymore stupid questions).
3. Naw, none of that is necessary-I check the engagement.

What did you think? Are all the tests necessary? Schuemann barrels are the one of the preferred barrels for those who shoot their guns-competitors who shoot 10s of thousands of rounds per year. What tests do you guys recommend?
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2006, 01:07 AM
Gammon Gammon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank1
After hours of pouring over Jerry's books (with include the http://www.schuemann.com barrel timing test), which incorporates the and quotes the timing test verbatim, after tickering, discovering and exploring and adjusting my 1911's, I have come to the following conclusions:

1. The timing tests make sense.
2. The timing tests are irrelevant to the majority of 1911 makers and owners as the pistols are never shot enough to induce the failure(s) as described in the tests.
3. After witnessing a failure described in the tests (at a pistol match-the lugs sheared off-installed by a working Gunsmith). These timing tests are important to those who shoot their pistols 10K plus per year.

Betcha that any Kimber, Springfield etc, will not pass the tests. But then from their perspective who cares? None of my guns passed all of tests without some adjustment. One didn't pass any initially. But again from the makers/smith's point of view-who cares-statistics show they will not be shot enough to induce the failures described.

I have one 1911 with 80K plus rounds on a barrel I installed (now I realize I got it right by sheer luck).

Question: Gunsmiths. Really understanding the timing of the pistol is pretty complex stuff (at least for me). My head hurt trying to grasp all of the concepts and performing the tests on multiple 1911's. If I am going to have a barrel installed, how does one find out, or discover, that the gunsmith has a clue as to how to properly install a new barrel and properly time the barrel?

So far the responses I have receive are:

1. Huh?
2. I know how to fit a barrel (don't ask me anymore stupid questions).
3. Naw, none of that is necessary-I check the engagement.

What did you think? Are all the tests necessary? Schuemann barrels are the one of the preferred barrels for those who shoot their guns-competitors who shoot 10s of thousands of rounds per year. What tests do you guys recommend?
Timing tests on stock guns probably aren't necessary because thet aren't fitted tightly enough to get the slide to round off the upper barrel lugs.
The amount the pistol is fired isn't the issue; I rounded the lugs off on a Scheumann barrel I installed myself in just a few hundred rounds. Wil Scheumann was very helpful and gave me a timing test kit, but I had already done the damage. I now test any barrel I install myself, using Wil's method.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2006, 06:05 AM
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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I guess you just have to do the research on the gunsmith and trust that they are knowledgeable about it. I think that your big name, nationally known smiths have it down. What if you don't want to wait over a year from one of the big guys? I guess you learn to do it yourself or try to gather enough info from/on a local gunsmith to make a reasonable assumption that he/she knows how to properly fit & time a barrel. Of the responses you gave from the three gunsmiths (either real or fictitious) I would keep searching, those three are not who you want.

If all you want is a barrel fit you should check still with some of the bigger outfits/gunsmiths like Yost-Bontiz, Gemini Customs, SDM Fabricating, John Harrison, Don Wilson, etc. as many of the "backlogged" smiths can/will still fit in smaller jobs in less time than their full house builds.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2006, 08:09 AM
Hunter Customs Hunter Customs is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Osborn, Missouri 64474
Posts: 3,383
I feel the timing test of a barrel are very important; I do them on all the guns I build.
I also check the radial lug spacing on all the slides I use.
The three test you are conducting when checking the timing are as follows.

1.Test to see if the impact surface that the barrel lower lug hits is to far forward. You will see damage to the radial lugs of the slide and barrel when the gun fails this test.

2.Test to see if the impact surface the barrel lower lug hit is to far to the rear. You will see damage to the barrel link and maybe the slide stop pin when the gun fails this test. If the link breaks and the gun is fired again there will most likely be damage to the upper and lower lugs, at times severe enough to shear the lugs off the barrel.

3.This test is done to make sure the upper surface of the frame and the inner surface of the slide are clear of the barrel when the barrel is in the full linked down position. What this test does is make sure the barrel will not hit the moving slide, and will not strike the top of the frame which in turn would increase the the impact loads on the barrel and frame when the barrel comes to a rest.

The above is the short version of barrel timing as it would take me way to long to type everything about barrel timing and how it's done.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2006, 10:25 AM
johna johna is offline
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Posts: 328
Would timing be different in 2 .45's of the same barrel length but one is a defensive gun shooting Hydrashok's and another is a Bullseye Wadcutter ?
How about 2 guns more different like a Kimber .38 super 4" and a GI 5" ?
I ask because some people want a "do it all" gun and I was wondering how the timing affected this.
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2006, 11:01 AM
brickeyee brickeyee is offline
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Posts: 1,932
If the timing is correct it should not matter.
You can get away with lousy timing in target (bullseye) guns if you are using low power loads. Run some full power loads through the gun and the damage can show rather quickly.
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2006, 05:50 AM
Big Daddy Big Daddy is offline
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Location: Delta, PA, USA
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Timing can be different from one type and/or caliber of gun. After all, the Colt 1911 was built for the .45ACP cartridge. I have built other caliber guns that needed to have the timing adjusted to be correct after building. I think in most cases that building a .45ACP 1911 the gun will be timed correctly if everything is done/fitted correctly in the building process. When you get into other calibers and deviate from the guns original design is when things can get a little quirky.

If your question was whether the timing is different between a 5" Government Model .45ACP and a 4.25" Commander Model .45ACP then the answer is no.
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