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  #1  
Old 05-10-2006, 07:21 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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colt defender problems




ok, i'll try to make this as short and to the point as possible. december 05 picked up a new colt defender model 07000d 45acp. first 500 or so rounds of 230 ball ammo completely flawless. then, she stared to ftf, fte, with evey mag i used (colt & after market mags).
then, along with the ftf, fte, the pistol would not fire with live round in the chamber. sent back to colt.
colt repair order: replace firing pin & spring, adjust extractor, polish head space, adjust to factory specs. after the pistol came back, immediately out to the range and she would'nt chamber the last round from any mag i used, evey time. back to colt.
colt repair order: repair stovepiping, replace and fit 2 NEW mags, test for function.
since she came back, almost 1100 rounds down the pipe with NOT EVEN ONE HICCUP! then she started as of last week stovepiping and not chambering last round. i changed the recoil spring and it did nothing to help.
this "lil" pistol is one of my favorate, accurate, and most fun to shoot, i would hate to sell it but what should i do? i believe the gun was not built right from the start, i mean twice back to colt and still not functioning. now, im not limp wristing, i use only 230gr fmj american made ammo, colt mags, well lubed slide, did the recoil spring change. should i sell it? should i ask colt to replace it? or, just send it back and let them work on it again? any help here would be great. its been most frustrating.
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2006, 10:29 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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colt problems

I have had the same happen to me. I dont want to think about the guns I got rid of because of the exact same problem. I also sent guns back to Colt numerous times, for the same thing...each continued to fail, just as you described.

Claudio Salassa in Houston solved the problem. It was very simple. Are you ready for this? It was a magazine problem. At least that is what my trouble was, again, for the exact same problems you describe.

It seems the mag follower must be at an certain angle to properly feed the cartridge into the chamber. Claud took my mags apart and slightly straightened the last two curves in each spring, thereby putting the follower at the right angel when the mag was reasembled.They were Colt mags, but I think any brand follower needs to be at the correct angle. When the magazines were new, they had no need to be "fixed." After using a while, they needed "adjustment". I have not had to do this to any other brand.

I still use those mags today without ANY failures,in the SAME guns, and that was 1991! No other changes were ever made.

So 1991 to 2006, same gun, same mags, no problems to date. Claudio Salassa is one of the best, if not THE best smith in the world. period. dot. end of story.
caminoman
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2006, 05:14 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminoman
I have had the same happen to me. I dont want to think about the guns I got rid of because of the exact same problem. I also sent guns back to Colt numerous times, for the same thing...each continued to fail, just as you described.

Claudio Salassa in Houston solved the problem. It was very simple. Are you ready for this? It was a magazine problem. At least that is what my trouble was, again, for the exact same problems you describe.

It seems the mag follower must be at an certain angle to properly feed the cartridge into the chamber. Claud took my mags apart and slightly straightened the last two curves in each spring, thereby putting the follower at the right angel when the mag was reasembled.They were Colt mags, but I think any brand follower needs to be at the correct angle. When the magazines were new, they had no need to be "fixed." After using a while, they needed "adjustment". I have not had to do this to any other brand.

I still use those mags today without ANY failures,in the SAME guns, and that was 1991! No other changes were ever made.

So 1991 to 2006, same gun, same mags, no problems to date. Claudio Salassa is one of the best, if not THE best smith in the world. period. dot. end of story.
caminoman
thanks for the info, would you happen to have a link or way to get in touch with claudio? i assume i will have to send the gun along with the mags?
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2006, 06:58 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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You can do it!

The procedure with the mags is not that dificult. It takes some practice but you should be able to do it, or anyone familar with how to take a mag apart... Depress the follower with a pencil and put a paperclip through the side of the mag to keep it depressed, then you take out the spring and follower. bend the last two curves (near the top of the spring) a little as if to straighten it. Then reassemble. The follower should tilt up at the front, or be lower at the rear. That should put the cartridge at the right position, or angle.

When I did mine, it took a while before I got the hang of it. Be carefull that follower doesnt go flying across the room into someones face, or in a corner never to be found again. wear eye protection. There may be some info on how-to mag dissambly somewhere on the net.

Claudio was head of the handgun division at Briely when I was in Houston. He and Paul Liebenberg were compadres in South Africa before coming to America, and he is not too bad a shot, either. Briely makes a lot of shotgun stuff, and most everyone there is into shooting sports. I dont know if he is still there or if he has moved. I lost touch with him abaut two or three years ago. If i remember right, Briely was on Lumpkin Street.
Let me know how it goes.
Caminoman
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:01 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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spelling of...

Briley is the correct way to spell the name. So far I have not found anything on a search....
C-man
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:08 PM
blackdragon blackdragon is offline
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I would replace the extractor! Get an EGW or any high quality extractor. Have it tuned!
Ivan
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:12 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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Check it out

American Handgunner Club 100 Pistolsmith DirectoryComplete pistols, custom work on your pistol and over 300 custom handgun accessories, ... BRILEY PISTOL DIVISION Claudio Salassa 1230 Lumpkin Rd., Houston, ...
www.americanhandgunner.com/Club100.html - 95k -

The above from Google...btw there is a defender in a local shop...$900...a little steep for me right know. i just picked up a couple of para LTC's, one a lightweight specifically for carry. If I didnt already have enough carry guns I would get it. Heck, how many is enough?
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:18 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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[QUOTE=Caminoman]The procedure with the mags is not that dificult. It takes some practice but you should be able to do it, or anyone familar with how to take a mag apart... Depress the follower with a pencil and put a paperclip through the side of the mag to keep it depressed, then you take out the spring and follower. bend the last two curves (near the top of the spring) a little as if to straighten it. Then reassemble. The follower should tilt up at the front, or be lower at the rear. That should put the cartridge at the right position, or angle.


thanks, i did the "bend" to one mag and marked it. saturday i'll be at the range to test. wish me luck.
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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Geeez!!

I just did a google search on Claudio. Impressive. I guess he is still in TX and you can send him a pistol. Not sure he would be the one working on it. These days he has guys working for him! I can remember when he did an action job for me while i waited. He's a good man.
caminoman
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:22 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdragon
I would replace the extractor! Get an EGW or any high quality extractor. Have it tuned!
Ivan
thanks for your advise. if i replace the extractor that would cure the fte, but what will cure the ftf?
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:35 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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Quick Study

It sure didnt take you long! I had a heck of a time getting the thing back together!...I am anxious to see how it works. hope it does the trick.
Caminoman
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:44 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caminoman
It sure didnt take you long! I had a heck of a time getting the thing back together!...I am anxious to see how it works. hope it does the trick.
Caminoman
once you have the spring held down the follower comes out with ease. now, im not sure if i bent the spring enough but, the follower is tilted toward the rear and high in the front.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2006, 09:44 PM
BUCKMARK BUCKMARK is offline
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I do hope you get your Defender working correctly. Mine has been a great gun and I know they are worth hanging on to.

After reading your post one thing stuck out. What changed over time that made your Defender go from great to really bad? Magazine springs came to mind off the bat. I'd say the guys are on to it.

BTW I was telling a guy at work the other day how I felt bad that my 3" Defender shot as well or better than my new XSE 5". The Defender is a great gun.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2006, 11:13 PM
Caminoman Caminoman is offline
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have you no mercy?

If ya'll keep talkin about those wonderful Defenders I am going to have to see what all the fuss is about, darn it. Oh shoot! I even have a couple holsters that would fit...hmmmmm...

Caminoman
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2006, 03:15 AM
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tex_n_cal tex_n_cal is offline
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Wilson officer's mags have molded followers, and are already set at the correct angle, if you don't want to hassle with adjusting other mags.
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2006, 05:23 AM
wetidlerjr wetidlerjr is offline
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All the mags I use in my Defender have Wilson springs and followers. Zero problems are the result.
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2006, 05:42 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCKMARK
I do hope you get your Defender working correctly. Mine has been a great gun and I know they are worth hanging on to.

After reading your post one thing stuck out. What changed over time that made your Defender go from great to really bad?
well, as i said i picked it up in december 05, 500 rounds later back to colt, 5-6 weeks later it came back, then, allmost right away back to colt. so you see it was a problem from the start.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2006, 05:45 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Wilson officer's mags have molded followers, and are already set at the correct angle, if you don't want to hassle with adjusting other mags.
thanks, but i also have wilson mags with the polymer follower and they do the exact same thing as the colt mags. i also have chip mccormick mags and they dont work either.
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:48 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetidlerjr
All the mags I use in my Defender have Wilson springs and followers. Zero problems are the result.
geez, you dont have to rub it in!
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:09 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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called colt today and spoke with a very nice gal, cathy i think her name was, and asked to talk to someone about this problem and she told me " the gunsmiths dont talk to customers". ok, so i explain the problem and she remembered me and the gun (due to the fact it has been there two times, and my name) so anyway she said she would talk to the service manager and call me back. his answer was "send it back" so i guess that fact i cant seem to find a mag to work with the gun, colt will have the gun in their service dept. more than i will have it in my possession.
saturday morning i'll be first in line at the range with all my mags maybe buy another one and blast away to see what gives. but if things go the they have in the recent past with this pistol, it will be on its way to colt. i still think the gun is a lemon but, i like it to much to give up .
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  #21  
Old 05-12-2006, 07:17 PM
Ken Rainey Ken Rainey is offline
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Since you have a shorter than "normal" 1911, everything is more critical in it's tuning and timing for reliable performance. A last rd failure to feed is usually indicative of a weak magazine spring. This is why the standard 1911 magazines have a dimple in the follower - to help keep the rd up a little when the spring starts to get weak so that it will still have a better chance of feeding at the proper time during the cycle and not get ahead of the extractor and get push fed and the extractor having to jump over the rim instead of sliding up behind it which will result in the extractor loosing tension and failures to extract. A standard follower also has the longer leg to help stabilize it so that the ammo won't dip as much.

Since your pistol ran fine for 1100 rds, something has changed. The magazines "shouldn't" be the problem in just 1100 rds unless they are extremely dirty. Using magazines other than standard capacity with the dimpled follower can cause you to have extractor problems when their springs get weak and the above scenario takes place - a lot of times without knowing it until failures start to happen. What I would do first is use a standard magazine with a strong spring, make sure it's clean - even a "non standard" mag with a strong spring should work but like I said, when it starts getting weak - see above. Next, make sure the extractor is tensioned correctly and not chipped or cracked and that it's channel is clean - there's info on here for doing that. IF you still have extraction problems, the extractor may be clocking (have you ever noticed the back of it turned in it's place at the rear of the slide?) which will cause failures to extract even when it's properly tuned - happen to me with my short stroker - fitted an EGW over size firing pin stop to hold it in perfect alignment and all is well.

You said you replaced the recoil spring, which is required more often with the shorter pistols without the dual spring setup, but remember that IF the mag spring was getting weak, the new strong recoil spring will now help the slide to out run the weak magazine trying to feeding the next rd. Timing my friend, timing.

To recap: Try a clean strong factory mag and clean the extractor channel and make sure the extractor is in good shape and is properly tensioned - that will probably get it going again.....luck to ya...
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:12 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Rainey
Since you have a shorter than "normal" 1911, everything is more critical in it's tuning and timing for reliable performance. A last rd failure to feed is usually indicative of a weak magazine spring. This is why the standard 1911 magazines have a dimple in the follower - to help keep the rd up a little when the spring starts to get weak so that it will still have a better chance of feeding at the proper time during the cycle and not get ahead of the extractor and get push fed and the extractor having to jump over the rim instead of sliding up behind it which will result in the extractor loosing tension and failures to extract. A standard follower also has the longer leg to help stabilize it so that the ammo won't dip as much.

Since your pistol ran fine for 1100 rds, something has changed. The magazines "shouldn't" be the problem in just 1100 rds unless they are extremely dirty. Using magazines other than standard capacity with the dimpled follower can cause you to have extractor problems when their springs get weak and the above scenario takes place - a lot of times without knowing it until failures start to happen. What I would do first is use a standard magazine with a strong spring, make sure it's clean - even a "non standard" mag with a strong spring should work but like I said, when it starts getting weak - see above. Next, make sure the extractor is tensioned correctly and not chipped or cracked and that it's channel is clean - there's info on here for doing that. IF you still have extraction problems, the extractor may be clocking (have you ever noticed the back of it turned in it's place at the rear of the slide?) which will cause failures to extract even when it's properly tuned - happen to me with my short stroker - fitted an EGW over size firing pin stop to hold it in perfect alignment and all is well.

You said you replaced the recoil spring, which is required more often with the shorter pistols without the dual spring setup, but remember that IF the mag spring was getting weak, the new strong recoil spring will now help the slide to out run the weak magazine trying to feeding the next rd. Timing my friend, timing.

To recap: Try a clean strong factory mag and clean the extractor channel and make sure the extractor is in good shape and is properly tensioned - that will probably get it going again.....luck to ya...
ken, thanks for your most detailed informaton, it has been very helpful. i did check the extrator and channel (holds empty shell, channel clean, no cracks) im not a pistol smith but they look ok. the last time this happened and i changed the recoil spring a gunsmith told me i "screwed up the timing and thats why the gun malfuntions". since the cm and wilson mags are 8 rounders i dismissed the fact they do not work in the lil gun. i think the gun shop has a wilson 7 round officers mag and i will buy it and try it out, also i will make sure my colt mags are clean. till tomorrow, stay tuned.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2006, 01:02 AM
dakota1911 dakota1911 is offline
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This would have been good to know a couple years ago. Although I have not had problems with my Defender 90 I figured this out when my Ruger P90 had the problem with failure to feed the last round from both of the supplied mags.
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Old 05-13-2006, 12:58 PM
Ken Rainey Ken Rainey is offline
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The extractor needs to be able to hold a LOADED rd and you still be able to shake the slide gently and it not fall out, droop a little, but not fall out easily.

Caminoman said to bend some of the factory mags springs at the top....putting a little more upward turn on the top coil may help some - I've never bent the top coil, but if the spring is just getting weak, you can take the bottom leg of it and bend it downward to give the spring a little more upward oomph til you can get a Wolff extra power replacement mag spring, you can buy'em in sets of three and that should take care of your factory mags for a long time.

I've found it best to have some mags just for practice and some just for carry....that way, you'll always have a good mag when it's needed and any mag related problems will only show up on the range.
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Old 05-13-2006, 03:47 PM
cx4strer cx4strer is offline
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range report

ok what the f--k! today took 150 rounds to the range, all 230 ball. first 50 no problems. next 50 zero failures. then the next 50 no problems! so i buy 50 more, 49 rounds double and triple taps only one ftf=====(most likely my fault). what is this pistol possessed or what?? i not complaining but, whats going on? i know its hard to give me an answer without being there so guess at it, because im baffled.
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